Well, would you look at that, after all forcing things to be discussed and bringing them to the news and social is actually a good thing to get more clear things when there’s problems.
I don’t see how that follows. Linus wanted to see how the discussion went on the mailing list. I doubt he wanted nor appreciated the negative media and social media attention.
It is not about it being public. He just wants it on the mailing list.
The people subscribed to the mailing list are all people involved in or specifically interested in kernel development. The hope is that the conversations there will be less technical and less political. What he does not want is a bunch of social or political pressure from drive by opinion holders on social media (like us).
It is fine for us to be discussing there discussion here. But he wants the discussion to be had “there”.
The main place to have technical discussions, big and small, is on a public mailing list. So everyone in the world with proper qualifications can join any time. It’s a way to ensure the best ideas with, instead of the loudest voice, or the person with the best networking.
Exactly. Airing-out Hellwig’s successful attempt to sabotage Rust efforts (and it was successful, given that at least two important maintainers have already resigned) was good, actually.
Unfortunately, it seems that Linus doesn’t have the maturity to recognize that, and this cycle is likely to continue, barring something good and unforeseen happening.
Nothing speculative about it. The substance of the problem (obstinate, crotchety baby that was blocking useful code) was ignored and Linus instead chose to wrongly focus on Marcan calling out the problem. There’s nothing wrong with people calling out toxic bullshit, and it seemed that social media was necessary for that in this case, yeah.
it was ignored for 5 days, hardly forever. does Linus’ SLA need to be quicker?
making things public loads the issue with political and social pressure making more damage to the project and everyone involved inevitable. it was made more toxic
You are really trying hard to contort things into things I didn’t say.
The people problem is being ignored, and it wasn’t until Linus was made aware of a technical justification for slapping Hellwig down that Linus focused his disapproval away from Marcan, who was rightly calling this out, to the person creating the problem.
And we lost at least three solid R4L devs, of which, Marcan was one, and there’s zero acknowledgement from Linus that fixating on Marcan rightly calling this shit out was wrong.
The people problem of letting obstinate babies block valid code for any non-technical reason still has not been addressed, and this will keep happening until that changes.
I think it’s a positive cycle. There’s unfortunately a lot of emotion in kernel maintenance, and this attacks a huge part of it. Subsystem maintainers are maintainers, they don’t own the project, they just make sure the code stays in a good state. In other words, they serve the users.
Well, would you look at that, after all forcing things to be discussed and bringing them to the news and social is actually a good thing to get more clear things when there’s problems.
I don’t see how that follows. Linus wanted to see how the discussion went on the mailing list. I doubt he wanted nor appreciated the negative media and social media attention.
I’m not really familiar with any of this, but if they want to keep this stuff private why bother to publish it on public mailing lists?
It is not about it being public. He just wants it on the mailing list.
The people subscribed to the mailing list are all people involved in or specifically interested in kernel development. The hope is that the conversations there will be less technical and less political. What he does not want is a bunch of social or political pressure from drive by opinion holders on social media (like us).
It is fine for us to be discussing there discussion here. But he wants the discussion to be had “there”.
The main place to have technical discussions, big and small, is on a public mailing list. So everyone in the world with proper qualifications can join any time. It’s a way to ensure the best ideas with, instead of the loudest voice, or the person with the best networking.
There’s no other place to have these discussions.
Exactly. Airing-out Hellwig’s successful attempt to sabotage Rust efforts (and it was successful, given that at least two important maintainers have already resigned) was good, actually.
Unfortunately, it seems that Linus doesn’t have the maturity to recognize that, and this cycle is likely to continue, barring something good and unforeseen happening.
so the social media publicity was required to resolve this issue?
do you realise the rust contributor quit after making everything public?
this was a technical issue that took Linus more than a week to check before making a clear decision
what you said is speculative nonsense
Certainly seems that way unfortunately.
you really think Linus would have ignored that email forever?
Nothing speculative about it. The substance of the problem (obstinate, crotchety baby that was blocking useful code) was ignored and Linus instead chose to wrongly focus on Marcan calling out the problem. There’s nothing wrong with people calling out toxic bullshit, and it seemed that social media was necessary for that in this case, yeah.
it was ignored for 5 days, hardly forever. does Linus’ SLA need to be quicker?
making things public loads the issue with political and social pressure making more damage to the project and everyone involved inevitable. it was made more toxic
the code would have made it in either way
You are really trying hard to contort things into things I didn’t say.
The people problem is being ignored, and it wasn’t until Linus was made aware of a technical justification for slapping Hellwig down that Linus focused his disapproval away from Marcan, who was rightly calling this out, to the person creating the problem.
And we lost at least three solid R4L devs, of which, Marcan was one, and there’s zero acknowledgement from Linus that fixating on Marcan rightly calling this shit out was wrong.
The people problem of letting obstinate babies block valid code for any non-technical reason still has not been addressed, and this will keep happening until that changes.
so now you say nothing has been resolved after all?
social media or not, we still have the:
so when you said
what you meant was, it didn’t do a damn thing
That’s not what any of that means. Your reading comprehension could use some work.
lol well thanks for not explaining yet again
lets just say i agree with the comment next to your initial comment, maybe you can attempt to make your point with them
I think it’s a positive cycle. There’s unfortunately a lot of emotion in kernel maintenance, and this attacks a huge part of it. Subsystem maintainers are maintainers, they don’t own the project, they just make sure the code stays in a good state. In other words, they serve the users.