Wtf is this argument ?
Are you at the same time validating “Ugh trans people are attention seeker, they think they deserve it because people hate on them” and “Hey look at us, we are the heroes of this story because people on internet disagree with us” ?
I know i already replied to your other comments, but it’s funny it’s the same in both case : you just do what you criticize other people for supposedly doing
Strange, it’s displaying as if I replied to a different comment than I intended to.
But really, I’m just mocking people who downvote others because they don’t agree with their comment. I think it’s really lame.
I’d like a place to talk to people, about contentious issues. I personally never use the downvote button and only occasionally even use the upvote button.
When I see a perfectly reasonable comment with -50 downvotes within minutes of posting … it makes me laugh at everyone who just can’t hit that downvote button fast enough.
When I see a perfectly reasonable comment with -50 downvotes within minutes of posting … it makes me laugh at everyone who just can’t hit that downvote button fast enough.
I think it’s safe to assume that those 50 people who downvoted that comment thought it actually wasn’t perfectly reasonable
I mean, you mocked them using the exact reasoning you criticize them for, like “making a show of being hated -> attention seeker”. But ok, let’s forget about that.
You may consider that you are actually mocking communities that are the target of true violence, not just downvotes. Like they get hurt, killed, harassed, even by administrations and systems ? Maybe that’s the reason for your downvotes.
And did you realized that this is really the main use of downvotes ? Just a quick way to react. If you agree/like, upvote. If you do not agree/dislike, downvote. It’s very simple really. Either you don’t get that, either you are mocking people for using tools the way they were intended to. Both ways seem dumb to me.
If you want a place that do not allows this quick reactions that are up/downvotes, well maybe switch for other platforms that are not designed around it ?
I don’t subscribe to the idea that tweets or message boards or ideas or ‘silence’ is violence.
The upvote system was invented to put relevant discussion to the top, and hide irrelevant discussion. What people have done with it is use it as a like/dislike button.
If that’s what it was, that’s what it would be called. Like Facebook, which has an actual ‘like’ button
But I do think people who even interact with the system are losers. That’s my personal, anecdotal, opinion of them
Yeah, i kinda agree with you, social media violence is “not” violence, or at least a lesser violence. This was my point : trans are the target of true violence, while being tired of hearing about them is not being target of true violence. This asymmetry may be the cause of that much people disagreeing with you.
On the up/downvote origin, you are right, i did not knew it. Everytime i have seen it used, and so everytime i used it, it was as a like/dislike option. You genuinely are the first person i see complaining about it, so i considered you wrong on this, my bad. But the idea still remains in a different way : though you are technically right, maybe you still can consider that using up/down as like/dislike is a common thing to do.
On the Facebook point, i do not know. It is rather a “like” system than a “like/dislike” : there isn’t really a way to disagree with a statement (the “angry” emoji being the closest, but it just conveys that you are angry, not if you agree with the com or not).
Well, let’s take it as a personal opinion then. Now here’s mine : people seeking attention by complaining about supposedly attention seekers are double losers, first because of my judgment, and second because of their own judgment.
I dunno, man. It’s a weird perspective to have when you’re me. I don’t hate trans people, I don’t hate gay people, I don’t hate minorities, I want everyone to be happy and healthy and free.
I just don’t agree with the lefts way of getting there and I don’t agree that their ‘goodness’ actually is coming from a place of good. I think people get wrapped up on the promises, I think trans rights are just the same as everyone else’s rights.
I don’t think trans people experience any more actual violence than any of us do. I’m just as likely to get beat up walking down the street as anyone else is.
I think the media and left wing educators are distracting us from the issues we should be up in arms about and feeding the masses a story to enact.
And I think lemmy is a huge symptom of that. This is not a diverse place. And any diversity of thought is struck down with the strength of a thousand suns.
I don’t think anyone deserves anymore rights than anyone else, and if you’re specifically talking about trans, if you wouldn’t give a 10yo girl breast augmentation surgery because she wanted bigger boobs, or a child penis injections because he wanted a bigger dick, why would you invert a 10yo penis to create a neo-vagina?
That’s not about ‘rights’. Those rights aren’t afford to only trans kids and then you tell an 8yo “no, I’m sorry you can’t get a tattoo on your face”. It’s disingenuous. How do you k ow how badly they want a face tattoo? Why would you deny them their sense of self in that way? Is that not hatecthen?
My slap down trans argument will always be this: if you’re an adult, do whatever the fuck you want. Put horns in your head, split your tongue, get tattoos, get bigger breasts, inject synthol into your arms, invert your penis. I don’t care.
But if a child has a perfectly healthy and functioning body, the problem they are having is not with their body, don’t do cosmetic surgery on them.
I get it, a bunch of quack doctors want to do as many of these surgeries as they can. These idiots would be lining up lobotomy patients too, if they still could.
Because they are quack doctors. They are idiots, they are scamming your kids by selling surgery to kids parents to treat a problem that isn’t physical.
Eh, what you say is interesting actually. Still, imo it does not change any of what has been said prior to that, you still made a scene to complain about people “making a scene”, and you still complained “we have the right to talk” while defending someone saying trans should stop talking.
This being said and put apart, i can identify two points in your comment.
You do not think people should care about trans rights, because in your opinion they are not threatened, and they should be considered as anyone else.
You have a huge problem with children having access to medical transition. (Not said in a bad way, but given that half your message is about this very precise point of the whole more diverse notion that are transgender and transsexuality, and that it is “all (you) have to say about”, it really seems the main, if not the only, issue for you).
For the 1st point :
There are two types of violence. let’s call them blind violence and targeted violence. First one can strike anyone, anywhere, both you and trans people. Second one can only strike targeted peoples and communities, like trans, and maybe groups of people you belong to, or are considered to belong to (religions, origins, etc.). It’s very difficult to prevent blind violence, by it’s very nature. But targeted violence is more easy to prevent, precisely because it’s easier to identify potential targets and potential criminals. Targeted violence is also more massive. That’s why people try to care about communities which are targets of violence, as trans are, and as many other are, sadly.
You make a difference between trans rights and your own rights. What about that trans rights are your rights ? You have the right to change gender, you have the right to have medical help about that, and so on. Trans do not have more rights, you have the same as them. Just because you do not need it does not mean it’s not your rights. You don’t know where your life will lead you, maybe you’ll need it at some point.
You seem to have a specific definition of “diverse”, which i don’t understand. I cannot really guess why you do not find Lemmy “diverse”. If you consider that “diverse” means a place where you can say you don’t like trans, well first you actually can, and then it’s not really what i would call diverse. To me, diversity is different from freedom of speech. Diversity -> you can produce “positive” things, meaning they have a meaning on their own. Freedom of speech -> you can produce “negative” things, meaning you can disagree with someone/something. To sum it up : imo criticism isnt diversity, it’s more on the freedom of speech spectrum. And in any case, you can criticize a lot here on Lemmy.
I dont really know which are the “issues we should be up in arms about”. If your true goals are freedom, happiness and healthiness, well the actual fate of trans people should be your concern, because they are the target of specific violence so more violence than the average (happiness–), the right of switching genders is at stake in many countries (freedom–) and their handling by health professional is also in danger (healthiness–). There are others matters that are as important, and we can even say more important, i would agree on that. But why on earth would you argue that everything is going fine for trans people and that they should shut up, while on the same time saying you are defending happiness and freedom of speech ?
For the 2nd point :
As i said, it seems very specific. Kid surgery is a hot topic, even in trans communities, and that is not at all what is the most important in trans struggle. So it seems a bit unfair to focus that much on it.
You should not call medical transition “cosmetic surgery”, because it’s not what it is, it’s actually considered therapy, as it is meant to prevent bad effects on your health. Your body is not the only thing to consider, your mental health matters too. If you can help a kid avoiding suicide and madness thanks to medicine, it is therapy, not cosmetic surgery. (You can be against this kind of therapy though, but you dont need it to be considered cosmetic surgery to be against).
As i said before, all kids remain equal in rights in this case. they all get access to the same therapies, and all are banned from cosmetic surgery.
One of the problem people try to avoid by changing sex is gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is the fact of having mental issues due to your body. So it is both a physical and a psychological problem, your body is in the heart of the problem, so changing it is one of the solutions.
Still, you can say that for any ethics reasons you should not change a kid’s sex. I do not agree but yeah, sure, that’s your opinion. Is this one disagreement really enough for you to defend that trans should stop talking about their issues, that they are the real problem and that you are the good guy by telling them to shut up ? I mean, from a logical point of view, it’s obviously wrong, you cannot pass from one to the other. But i even struggle to understand how a single point like this can make you that much tired of hearing about trans. I must confess that i strongly suspect that though this is all that you have to say, it is not all you think, and that you have many more disagreement that you wish to keep for yourself.
Im sorry my answer is so long, i already shortened it as much as i could. Sorry if this a problem for you.
Two things i want to acknowledge “quickly” :
Being trans is not something you want or choose, as a lot of what you said seems to imply. It’s not just what you think, it’s what you are, and you have very little power about it, like our cis identity (i presume you are cis, sorry if not). This plus the fact that our societies are more hostile towards trans people makes it logical that they should deserve a specific medical care, because they cannot change how they feel by the only power of their will.
All what you said is your point of view, and i respect that. I advise you to try and consider though, that it might hurt peoples. Not a lot of course, but that’s the problem with systemic hate : even little and peaceful disagreements, when put together, can become a huge moral burden. Of course the solution is not for you to shut up. Continue to express yourself. But if you just think about how it can hurt people, i truly believe that it can help you expressing your point of view while caring for the people it could hurt, and so making it less hurtful. And if you feel too overwhelmed by anything else, or too lazy to think about this, well, i happily admit that it’s not a huge deal, there are bigger problems out here.
Wtf is this argument ? Are you at the same time validating “Ugh trans people are attention seeker, they think they deserve it because people hate on them” and “Hey look at us, we are the heroes of this story because people on internet disagree with us” ? I know i already replied to your other comments, but it’s funny it’s the same in both case : you just do what you criticize other people for supposedly doing
Strange, it’s displaying as if I replied to a different comment than I intended to.
But really, I’m just mocking people who downvote others because they don’t agree with their comment. I think it’s really lame.
I’d like a place to talk to people, about contentious issues. I personally never use the downvote button and only occasionally even use the upvote button.
When I see a perfectly reasonable comment with -50 downvotes within minutes of posting … it makes me laugh at everyone who just can’t hit that downvote button fast enough.
So I’m really just mocking those people
I think it’s safe to assume that those 50 people who downvoted that comment thought it actually wasn’t perfectly reasonable
Sure, but they’re children
what wrong with that
Children don’t know anything yet. They haven’t lived enough to know anything yet. Because they’re children.
Wait until you’re grown up, you’ll understand that we shouldn’t listen to teenagers about how the world should work.
if you make the claim you need to provide the evidence
Just because your opinion is different from the mainstream doesn’t mean you’re cool and unique, it might just mean you’re a dumb cunt
Tech bros and communist teenagers aren’t ‘mainstream’.
Don’t believe everything you read on social media
they’re all in for discrimination against trans and gay people
You spend too much time online.
how
I mean, you mocked them using the exact reasoning you criticize them for, like “making a show of being hated -> attention seeker”. But ok, let’s forget about that. You may consider that you are actually mocking communities that are the target of true violence, not just downvotes. Like they get hurt, killed, harassed, even by administrations and systems ? Maybe that’s the reason for your downvotes. And did you realized that this is really the main use of downvotes ? Just a quick way to react. If you agree/like, upvote. If you do not agree/dislike, downvote. It’s very simple really. Either you don’t get that, either you are mocking people for using tools the way they were intended to. Both ways seem dumb to me. If you want a place that do not allows this quick reactions that are up/downvotes, well maybe switch for other platforms that are not designed around it ?
I don’t subscribe to the idea that tweets or message boards or ideas or ‘silence’ is violence.
The upvote system was invented to put relevant discussion to the top, and hide irrelevant discussion. What people have done with it is use it as a like/dislike button.
If that’s what it was, that’s what it would be called. Like Facebook, which has an actual ‘like’ button
But I do think people who even interact with the system are losers. That’s my personal, anecdotal, opinion of them
Yeah, i kinda agree with you, social media violence is “not” violence, or at least a lesser violence. This was my point : trans are the target of true violence, while being tired of hearing about them is not being target of true violence. This asymmetry may be the cause of that much people disagreeing with you.
On the up/downvote origin, you are right, i did not knew it. Everytime i have seen it used, and so everytime i used it, it was as a like/dislike option. You genuinely are the first person i see complaining about it, so i considered you wrong on this, my bad. But the idea still remains in a different way : though you are technically right, maybe you still can consider that using up/down as like/dislike is a common thing to do.
On the Facebook point, i do not know. It is rather a “like” system than a “like/dislike” : there isn’t really a way to disagree with a statement (the “angry” emoji being the closest, but it just conveys that you are angry, not if you agree with the com or not).
Well, let’s take it as a personal opinion then. Now here’s mine : people seeking attention by complaining about supposedly attention seekers are double losers, first because of my judgment, and second because of their own judgment.
I dunno, man. It’s a weird perspective to have when you’re me. I don’t hate trans people, I don’t hate gay people, I don’t hate minorities, I want everyone to be happy and healthy and free.
I just don’t agree with the lefts way of getting there and I don’t agree that their ‘goodness’ actually is coming from a place of good. I think people get wrapped up on the promises, I think trans rights are just the same as everyone else’s rights.
I don’t think trans people experience any more actual violence than any of us do. I’m just as likely to get beat up walking down the street as anyone else is.
I think the media and left wing educators are distracting us from the issues we should be up in arms about and feeding the masses a story to enact.
And I think lemmy is a huge symptom of that. This is not a diverse place. And any diversity of thought is struck down with the strength of a thousand suns.
I don’t think anyone deserves anymore rights than anyone else, and if you’re specifically talking about trans, if you wouldn’t give a 10yo girl breast augmentation surgery because she wanted bigger boobs, or a child penis injections because he wanted a bigger dick, why would you invert a 10yo penis to create a neo-vagina?
That’s not about ‘rights’. Those rights aren’t afford to only trans kids and then you tell an 8yo “no, I’m sorry you can’t get a tattoo on your face”. It’s disingenuous. How do you k ow how badly they want a face tattoo? Why would you deny them their sense of self in that way? Is that not hatecthen?
My slap down trans argument will always be this: if you’re an adult, do whatever the fuck you want. Put horns in your head, split your tongue, get tattoos, get bigger breasts, inject synthol into your arms, invert your penis. I don’t care.
But if a child has a perfectly healthy and functioning body, the problem they are having is not with their body, don’t do cosmetic surgery on them.
I get it, a bunch of quack doctors want to do as many of these surgeries as they can. These idiots would be lining up lobotomy patients too, if they still could.
Because they are quack doctors. They are idiots, they are scamming your kids by selling surgery to kids parents to treat a problem that isn’t physical.
And that’s all I have to say about that
Eh, what you say is interesting actually. Still, imo it does not change any of what has been said prior to that, you still made a scene to complain about people “making a scene”, and you still complained “we have the right to talk” while defending someone saying trans should stop talking.
This being said and put apart, i can identify two points in your comment.
For the 1st point :
For the 2nd point :
Im sorry my answer is so long, i already shortened it as much as i could. Sorry if this a problem for you. Two things i want to acknowledge “quickly” :