I received my ballot a week ago and I couldn’t bring myself to fill it out yet. I’m scared of another Trump presidency if that is what happens, but I can’t keep supporting Democrats that have become what they claim to hate. I know if I vote for her that I’m sending a message that they can keep using the same playbook to move closer to fascism and corporatocracy.
They use their influence & power to eliminate opposition, and their donor money to astroturf social media. They censor other voices online, and spread lies about other people (Jill Stein) without evidence. They gaslight and claim you’re fascist for telling the truth and blame others for their mistakes. They’ll use your money to pay for genocide while turning a blind eye to help themselves, but make a thousand excused why they can’t help you.
They don’t deserve to win. Trump will be bad and I’m scared about what will happen if he wins, but you and I are not to blame. All they had to do was be truthful, transparent, empathetic and genuine—but their lust for power got in the way.
Banned in c/politics, two first names, and there is even a made up story that seemingly is an amalgamation of a few different stories in their comment history (https://a.lemmy.world/lemmy.world/comment/13034690)
I don’t want to say this is a disinformation operative, but it sure fucking quacks like one.
Banned for saying Kamala is and will help fund genocide. Was called a conspiracy theorist for believing there is a genocide in Palestine. Shills astroturfed my account and went and downvoted everything including my community where all I did was post music in support of equal rights. Mod is pro-censorship against any inconvenient truths about Kamala while users falsely claimed I’m a Trump-supporting fascist. Good job [email protected]. I hadn’t made up my mind but you solidified my vote for Stein.
So vote for Stein and throw your vote away, possibly helping Trump in the long run
Great idea.
I’m not throwing my vote away. I’m sending an important message to those who have become blind to reality. One Israeli life does not equal that of 10 innocent Palestinian children. Kamala doesn’t say stop the massacre now, but instead that we will always support the apartheid state.
Her administration has rewarded the genocide and vetoed the UN. They actively ignore and reject the findings by the ICJ and spread false narratives. I’m done and won’t support it, but go ahead and pretend the genocide is a conspiracy theory.
And Jill refuses to say Putin is a war criminal, but instead will always support him.
How many Ukrainian lives are worth one Palestinian life?
She absolutely did and you must not be paying attention. Go watch her Zeteo interview. Stein does real interviews not PR stunts from her donors.
Don’t gaslight me. I was paying very close attention. She clearly avoided calling Putin a war criminal. And she was given many opportunities:
Mehdi Hasan: So you called Netanyahu one, which I think he is.
Jill Stein: Oh, absolutely.
Mehdi Hasan: Is Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: So what we said about Putin was that his invasion of Ukraine is a criminal and murderous war.
Mehdi Hasan: And he’s a war criminal who should be on trial?
Jill Stein: Well, by implication.
Mehdi Hasan: You’re struggling here to say something very simple. This is why people have their doubts about you with Russia. Why is Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal but not Vladimir Putin?
Jill Stein: Well, as John F. Kennedy said, “We must not negotiate out of fear and we must not fear to negotiate.” So if you want to be an effective world leader, you don’t start by name calling and hurling out that.
Mehdi Hasan: So how will President Stein negotiate with Israel then, if you’ve called Netanyahu a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Well, because he very clearly is a war criminal.
Mehdi Hasan: Oh, so Putin clearly isn’t a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Well, we don’t have a decision, put it this way, by the International Criminal Court.
Mehdi Hasan: Yes, we do. Yes, actually, actually, you’re wrong. There’s an arrest warrant for Putin and there isn’t an arrest warrant for Netanyahu, so why is Putin not a war criminal, but Netanyahu is?
Jill Stein: Yeah. Well, let me say this. We are sponsoring that war. We are sponsoring Netanyahu. He is our dog in this fight. That is why we have a responsibility to pull him back.
Mehdi Hasan: No disagreement from me at all. It still doesn’t answer my question. Whether we sponsor them or not is irrelevant.
Jill Stein: With Russia it’s far more complicated.
Mehdi Hasan: Either you’re a war criminal or you’re not. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: In so many words, yes he is.
Mehdi Hasan: I don’t know “what so many words” - Butch, is Vladimir Putin a war criminal?
Jill Stein: Let me say that whatever you think he is -
Mehdi Hasan: It’s not about what I think. I’m asking you. You’re running for President.
Jill Stein: If you want to pull him back, if you are a world leader, you don’t begin your conversation by calling someone a war criminal unless you have a…
Mehdi Hasan: So why have you called Biden and Netanyahu war criminals?
Jill Stein: Because we have a clear strategy and we have very strong support across the world.
She calls him a war criminal at least there times there and you’re so blind you don’t even recognize it. Now go ask Kamala about her master Netanyahu. Has she called Netanyahu a war criminal? Oh she must be an Israeli agent according to your logic.
I’m afraid you’re the one who refuses to see.
Jill Stein only used the words “war criminal” twice in that segment, and in both cases she wasn’t referring to Putin.
In fact, she spent less time talking about his war crimes than on explaining why one shouldn’t call Putin a war criminal.
She absolutely referred to Putin as a war criminal 3 times but didn’t repeat Mehdi’s exact words like a parrot 🦜 Come back when Kamala calls Netanyahu a war criminal and I’ll demand Stein use stronger language for you. At this point you have no standing.
The important message you’re sending is ‘I would like to piss away my vote, thanks.’
No, the message you send is… “I’ll vote for genocide and tell you who you should vote for cause democracy.”
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Jill Stains won’t stop it
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I’m not telling you who to vote for, this is a democracy, you’re free to piss away your vote if you want to.
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I agree with you, war is not the answer. But realistically speaking, what kind of chance does a third party candidate have? Does this help illustrate it?
The point for people to vote for Stein isn’t cause she’ll win this election. It’s to send a message. Kamala didn’t earn my vote and her supporters harassing, threatening, and slandering me nonstop doesn’t help. Everyone is entitled to vote for who they want and Democrats have crossed into the voter intimidation category. Like I said, Democrats are heading towards fascism and their supporters will allow it.
Ok, if we get Trump, you helped it happen.
If Trump gets elected you and Kamalacide helped it happen.
That makes no sense. Good luck with your single digit voting percentages and “having your voice heard”. Harris is the one chance this country has against descending into chaos and you’re out here gambling on it. Here, a little excerpt from Wikipedia regarding the 2016 election:
Russians worked to boost the Stein campaign as part of the effort to siphon support away from Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and tilt the election to Trump."You’re right where they want you. Angry and willing to throw your votes away, towards a candidate that doesn’t have a semblance of a chance, in a country that doesn’t give a fuck about your individual voice. You only have a chance if you’re in the majority.
Welcome to reality.
They boosted Bernie Sanders as well. Are you saying Bernie is a Russian agent because they boosted a campaign?
I’m not buying, “yeah Kamala’s statements and policy on Israel are pretty bad, but Trump is worse” argument. Find a better candidate or demand she change her tune.
You’re voting for the Russian asset.
She is actively against the Ukrainian war and has stated Putin should be arrested and charged with war crimes. You’re full of it and making things up to try to boost your terrible candidate.
She’s cooperated in multiple inquiries and there is no evidence that she’s a Russian agent. So predictable though. Do you see them wherever you go? Do you need a schizophrenia mental health hotline?
Good choice! I’m sure Trump will do a much better job handling this than Kamala!!
I don’t think either will be good at it which is why I’m voting for Jill Stein.
Congratulations! /s
Congratulations to the willfully blind Democrats.
Third parties are great and we need them. That’s why first past the post needs to die first:
Until we have ranked choice voting, or some kind of ranked list type vote, you really do only have two choices. Not because of limp-dick defeatism. Not because of establishment stranglehold. Because of voting math.
Basically, when you factor in the laws of votings physics, voting for Stein under this system isn’t voting for Stein, it’s voting for Trump. The way to get a Stein in the white house is to get Harris in now and then absolutely fucking bust balls and crack skulls to get ranked choice voting (or similar) passed.
Otherwise you are engaging in actions which do not lead to the outcome you yourself want. This is why first past the post needs to die. Given enough election cycles, it forces a choice between losing completely (trump) and not getting what you want (harris). It’s all just the effects of bad game rules.
How would third party voters already voting for someone else help Trump, unless they otherwise would vote for Kamala? What makes you think they’d vote for Kamala?
I think you just look at what the two candidates are offering and then look at the overlap between each of them and whatever third party you are considering voting for.
Using logic, the candidate that most closely matches your preferences is the one that is losing your vote, and since 3rd parties can’t win in a first past the post system, you have worked against your own best interests by giving your vote to the third party instead of the one of the 2 that matches your interests most closely, which gives the candidate that least aligns with your values an advantage of 1 vote not cast for their opponent.
It’s math. people who vote 3rd party aren’t just throwing their vote away, they are specifically hurting the major candidate that most matches their viewpoints.
In this case we can guess based on context who OP would vote for if only given 2 choices. And let me be clear: they are only getting two choices. They can choose the major candidate who aligns with their beliefs most closely, or they can waste their ballot, giving the other party the advantage.
your own best interests by giving your vote to the third party instead of the one of the 2 that matches your interests most closely, which gives the candidate that least aligns with your values an advantage of 1 vote not cast for their opponent.
Please don’t assume that my interests aligns closely with either bought-and-paid-for-by-corporations establishment two-party candidate. If I wasn’t voting for a third party candidate this election, then I wouldn’t be voting for any other candidate, so no one is taking my vote away because they never earned it in the first place.
It’s math. people who vote 3rd party aren’t just throwing their vote away, they are specifically hurting the major candidate that most matches their viewpoints.
That isn’t math and isn’t logical. We know that a candidate that is further from our values could get elected if we don’t vote for a two party candidate. That is a chance we’re willing to take and if you’d instead focus on making more demands from your preferred candidate, instead of attacking, lying about, and blaming other people, then you may get somewhere. Me personally, the final straw was Democrats supporting and enabling genocide. That’s where I draw my line in the sand. Her saying she wouldn’t do anything different than Biden was obvious and abhorrent.
It is math and logic. Humans are really bad at this and that’s how we get to where we are now. You are a good example and I think your arguments stand to show why.
Good luck with your democracy.
How’d that math (your bias) and logic (your emotions) work out for you?
The math and logic went as expected. Fools like you all over the country made ignorant selfish decisions, and here are the consequences.
I’m so confused why you’d bother to waste your time on a “gotcha!” With a stranger on the internet. But it shows how vain you are, so I guess that tracks.
You’re right about one thing, it went exactly as expected. The blame-anyone-but-ourselves Democrats will learn nothing from this and in 4 years you’ll be making the same mistakes that got you here.
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All that evil needs to prosper is inaction from good people.
