The best class I took in college was an intercession course about the Vietnam War. We had to read an entire book pretty much every day, which was great prep for grad school.
I basically learned that the entire war was completely unjustified, it was horrific and brutal on both sides in ways that aren’t talked about, but that ultimately the United States had absolutely no business interfering. Vietnam had spent years under French colonial control, which they overthrew under their own power. They had already asserted a desire to rule themselves.
Tonkin was also a genuine false flag, which just isn’t acknowledged? We manufactured the cause for an extremely unpopular war. So many young man died or were disabled because of something that was pointless.
That class was first that really got me to question the patriotic narrative I was taught about American history in high school.
Of course we can’t acknowledge it, because then we can’t make the same “mistake” again and people will start questioning real causus belli like saddams WMDs which we’ll find any day now.
Vietnam got a rough fucking deal in the 1900s. Shortly after the US left, the Cambodians under Pol Pot invaded, and they were brutal
And Vietnam ended up kicking Pol Pot off which is impossible to argue as anything but a win for humanity.
Yeah they deserve some sort of award for that.
China also invaded.
Twice, the buggers
i got the soviet-afghan war and wow did that recontextualize a lot of things about the modern world
Such as?
bear in mind i was 10 during 9/11 so a lot of it was just upending things i had taken for granted. but like, how the US was pretty much allied with the taliban throughout the 80s, giving them training and weapons to fight against the soviet-friendly progressive, secular government of afghanistan.
The Soviet-friendly Afghan government wasn’t a) progressive and b) wasn’t secular. The government is explicitly Marxist-Leninist who oppressed and forced people to drop their religion as part of state atheism.
The progressivism and secularism you refer to was during the kingdom era before being overthrown by the communist Afghan military. The more liberal attitude is only contained in a bubble in the capital city of Kabul. The rest of 80% of Afghans are still religious conservatives living rural and in poverty. An Afghan female former politician lamented not seeing this because she grew up in liberal Kabul.
Also more importantly, it’s a misconception that the US helped the Taliban. The mujahideen was composed of various factions, some are secular, some are conservative, while some are more Islamists. But, the ultraconservative elements only came later in more definite form under the Taliban, which defeated both the secular and conservative forces.
forced people to drop their religion as part of state atheism.
Sounds like
progressivism and secularism
To me
Forcing someone to change their beliefs is considered progressivism and secularism? I did not get the memo that progressives are authoritarians. What were the Afghans resisting the Soviets for then?
Getting rid of religion would be a major leap forward for humanity.
As much as I want religion to be gone, you can’t force people to change their beliefs overnight. We frown upon forced conversion by one religion on another; why can’t atheist apply the same standard to theists? That was the mistake of communist Afghans and it only led to a severe backlash of inducing the mostly conservative Afghans to become ultra-consenservative Islamists. Every reaction has an opposite but equal reaction. Social changes has to be organic.
Same as always
People that make those decisions want to continue to make those decisions
Charlie Wilson’s War is a pretty great movie about that, starring Tom Hanks, directed by Mike Nichols and written by Aaron Sorkin, although it’s more of a political satire and plays it fast and loose with the historical details.
I’ve got class war, which is a real doozy.
Yooo same. Why the fuck don’t these people just fuck off and relax? I can’t imagine having that much money and still feeling like I have to go to work.
Because at some point after the first few million you turn into a dragon that must hoard wealth and the people that generate that wealth become a cost to minimize.
Barf, after my first few million they better be looking all over for me cause ima be peaced out to a 100 year vacation.
When I’m a billionaire (and no longer temporarily embarrassed), I’m going to fund so much tasteless art. And by art I mean mostly pornography. But I’ll hire the best advisors to make sure it’s a classy positive influence on society.
Old and busted: class war
New hotness: culture war
I got the second Punic war, but I think that’s just a freebie. I also spent a lot learning about the Falkland’s war just to annoy Argentinians online.
I’m glad I missed this.
btw, did you know that the Australian government killed almost 1000 Emus in the Great Emu War and still lost?
The military used over 10,000 rounds of ammunition. that would mean they used around 10 rounds per Emu.
They also used actual military tactics to fight the Emus, like mapping their routes and setting up ambushes. In one of these, they managed to get close to a flock of about a thousand emus and attacked them with machine guns only allowing the escape of… lemme check… about a thousand emus.
I typically have a 60% accuracy in Helldivers 2 and I’m fighting swarms of giant bugs. I think I’ll forgive the Australians for 10 rounds per bird, especially since winging an emu probably doesn’t stop it.
Compared to the amount of bullets expended per casualty in any modern war that is actually very good. The US probably fired thousands of bullets for each insurgent killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Due to a typo, I ended up with “The Cod War”
https://www.icelandreview.com/travel/the-cod-wars-in-iceland/
Pretty sure they made a video game series about that.
I’m the War on Christmas guy, and I’m getting my ass handed to me every single year.
I’m the war on drugs guy and I… what was I talking about? Man, those brownies were strong! *strolls off*
i’m the war on advent guy. you don’t know how nice you have it
My sheet says “rome”
Uh oh
“So, what’s Rome’s history like?”
“It’s all war.”
Republic or Empire?
Western.
Not gonna lie my eyes glaze over a bit at the byzantium complexity
Hell yeah, I got the Dominion War. Time for another DS9 rewatch.
I participated in the war on drugs…
On the winning side, I imagine.
I think so, it’s all a haze.
By winning, you meantaking copious amounts of drugs?
Buying, selling, using, abusing, growing, extracting, synthesizing, losing, hiding, educating, discarding, withdrawing, etc.
WWIII nut here.
Get yourself a Red Cross emergency kit, a lot of water jugs, and ramen. You’re underestimating your chances of survival and how much you’ll want to.
You’re underestimating your chances of survival and how much you’ll want to.
yes, you too can live out the remainder of your miserable days scrambling for rat meat in the irradiated future.
of course, the desire to live, to survive, overcomes a lot, but ‘want to live’ I think is stretching it a bit.
I’ve worked briefly with civil defense stuff and got to visit and learn a whole bunch about bunkers. That cemented my “take out the long chair, open my best bottle, put on some shades, and enjoy the brief light show” approach to a hypothetical nuclear alert.
How long should the long chair be?
I suspect what they’re getting at is: there are a lot of scenarios other than “all out exchange between major powers”, and when the fallout starts floating, you can either just hang out at home (and die of cancer in a year or two), or shelter in a basement for a week (and emerge to a troubled but liveable world.)
shelter in a basement for a week (and emerge to a troubled but liveable world.)
give this a read sometime. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/748264/nuclear-war-by-annie-jacobsen/
I don’t think anyone’s going to hold up for a week then find the world very livable. even the areas not eradicated by direct strikes will suffer terribly from the food shortages and collapsing societies.
I’m familiar with the extinction event scenarios, and agree that in some cases one may not find the world worth living in. I recommend Krepinevich’s “7 Deadly Scenarios”, a couple of those involve nuclear attacks. The sitations are comparable to the recent Covid pandemic: millions of people die, the world is subsequently scarred, but life goes on for most people. A bit of planning can make things less horrible and a lot of it overlaps with natural disaster.
I think you may misunderstand. <edit or I’m misreading your replies>
Jacob’s book covers an all in exchange. everyone goes max. very little in the northern hemisphere would survive. a bit of planning, all the planning in the world - neither will save you when each side is maximizing the amount of fallout with ground strikes with megaton weapons.
the ‘lucky’ folk in the southern hemisphere will just have to wait until the after effects catch up to them.
Jacob’s scenario is megadeaths to gigadeaths - literally a billion dead directly (flash/blast/etc) and multiple billions dead shortly after. Krepinevich’s scenario is a few terrorists with tactical weapons.
these are wildly different things.
<edit I don’t think you’re meaning to downplay the seriousness of any kind of major nuclear exchange, but just underestimating how seriously civilization ending it is>
Yeah, I suspect we basically agree on things. I grew up with Threads and The Day After, and later I read up on nuclear winter and EMPs so I realize that human extinction is a very real possibility.
But apart from that, the question is: how to prepare for the “less than extinction” scenarios, the sort of thing that Krepinevich and ready.gov discuss.
Mine just says WW15 and has a picture of a green tiger in space
Is there also a buff blonde dude with a sword in a fur loincloth?
I bet we’re all space tigers by then
The War of the Tiger Kings.
Goddammit. I guess I’ll go get my mullet wig.
Hey, the Falklands is the one I’m obsessed with and it’s actually really interesting. Only “modern” war between near peers before ukraine.
Iran Iraq war also known as first gulf war?
Wut
The Iraqi army got absolutely obliterated
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War
That’s not the US led UN backed war following Iraq‘s invasion of Kuwait. Iran and Iraq had a long and brutal war with tanks, planes, helicopters, mines, trenches, and more in the 1980s.
I’m sure you’ve come across it but David Hart Dyke’s book on the loss of HMS Coventry is one of the more vivid depictions of grief I’ve read.
Near peers? Pretty sure there’s a whole ocean separating Argentina and Britain, even if the islands where the conflict occurred were “just next door” to mainland Argentina.
That’s not what the near in near peer means…
It’s a measure of military capability between nations. A Near Peer would be a nation that shares similar capabilities for force projection or in otherwords the powerscale is 1:1.
I think they meant “near” as in “evenly matched”.
Sweet! I got Star Wars!
But it’s the Disney sequel trilogy.
Andor FTW!
All I got was Star Wars
I got the Emu War
Don’t let that obsession drag you down under.
For reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
