They’re afraid!
I think the health insurance companies are actually taken by surprise by the amount of people who sincerely wish them death. Maybe we will see some almost-meaningful change soon?
Hmm, seems an American problem needed an American solution
I’m starting to think the whole “Violence is never the answer” is just yet another propaganda piece of the rich
Basically every large successful social change has been built on violence or the threat of it. King might have been a nice speaker and a friendly face, but violence brought people to the table.
I strongly recommend a book called The Sword and The Shield, about the dual roles Malcom X and King played in the civil rights era. King very well understood the need for a credible threat of violence, and actually he grew closer to Malcolm X’s beliefs as time went on, and that is why he was killed.
At our worst moments, when all else fails, violence is the only answer and everyone, deep down, knows that.
Edit to add: washing King’s legacy via history so he appears as purely nonviolent is, I believe, a very deliberate strategy to make us easier to pacify. You’ll notice that no high school curricula (barring I’m sure some notable exceptions) have ever taught Malcolm X. Only King, and only his nonviolence! Civil rights safely defanged.
This is reminding me strongly about how the Black Panther Party was vilified and outlawed. California didn’t ban open carry for any other reason than to stop black people from being able too.
A critically important piece of our history, yes! The notion of gun control practically at all in this country actually came about because black people organized. Not only did the Black Panthers openly carry while carefully witnessing / observing law enforcement in their community, they also ran many aid programs and focused on the need for education and self-reliance.
And that had to be stopped, and it was.
A lot of racist/white supremacist intent underlined much of early gun control. Before concealed gun carry permits existed in a widespread manner in the late 80s, it was known that if you were the right skin color and weren’t carrying a shitty gun without said permit, cops looked the other way.
White guy with a H&K or Sig Sauer? “Have a nice day day sir”
Minority with a Jennings or Lorcin? Dangerous criminal lying in wait for their next victim
the original Act of 1893 … was passed for the purpose of disarming the negro laborers … and to give the white citizens in sparsely settled areas a better feeling of security. The statute was never intended to be applied to the white population and in practice has never been so applied. It is a safe guess to assume that more than 80% of the white men living in the rural sections of Florida have violated this statute… and there has never been, within my knowledge, any effort to enforce the provisions of this statute as to white people
Rivers H. Buford, associate justice of the Florida Supreme Court, Watson v Stone - 1941
Thank you for the rec! I don’t read nonfiction really but I am thinking this is a great place for me to start. That sounds fascinating
Sure thing! It was certainly eye opening, I’d stop short of calling it a page-turner myself, but I think it’s important to give myself a better education about our history than our classrooms were able to.
Also, as a sometimes-neurotic reader, in case this is useful - nonfiction especially you can just choose which bits to read if that makes a difference for ya. It’s got a flow and a narrative of course, so you’ll lose a bit that way, but I’ve had struggles with other nonfiction books and needed to just try to get to the meat and forgive myself for that, lol. Turns out it’s totally allowed, no one even says anything!
Thank you that does make a difference and the last bit made me lol so thanks for that too
He knew it too. When Gandhi got imprisoned, his movement turned violent. If you don’t listen to the peaceful protester, you’ll get the angry rioter.
“And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.”
-MLK
Gandhi’s counterpoint was Subhas Chandra Bose all along.
It is 100%. Max Stirner talked about that in the 1800s.
I never understood how our country - proudly founded through the uprising of the downtrodden to overthrow their oppressor with violence - could ever honestly think that violence is never the answer. Our national anthem has a stanza specifically dedicated to the rockets and bombs “we the people” used against the British.
Yes. Yes it is, it has been for years and years. They figured out that if they get us to believe violence is inherently bad and should never be resorted to, then they can safely ignore us. It starts early too, with that complete crock of shit about ignoring bullies making them go away.
Violence should never be the first solution, but the threat of it needs to be there if the first attempt fails, and resorting to violence should happen as soon as it becomes apparent that nonviolent methods are not being regarded in good faith.
The lemmy.ml in my name for a reason. My realization moment was while I was in the military ironically enough.
Aren’t the admins of that instance a bunch of statists who support the government having a monopoly on the use of legitimate violence? As a communist, drag can’t support any ideology where the means of production are owned by an elite class of government officials rather than by the people.
I have not experienced that. But I agree with your position otherwise
I would argue that’s an issue of perspective, were I to post things that are hypercritical of western propaganda on world, I would be and have been banned there too. Managing propaganda is not the same thing as the claims made above.
Nowhere in that link was there claims that only the state has a monopoly on violence.
Edit: And I have absolutely been critical of Russia on their communities. As for the China critiques, I imagine they’re tired of the same western propaganda ad nauseum
“Violence is never the answer (when it suits the rich)”.
Lol inspired me to make this:
If this action is repeated, expect to see stringent gun control laws in record time.
I believe the answer will still be ‘come and take them’, and I don’t think Cletus is gonna disagree.
I will cover my guns in cosmoline, wrap them in wax paper, and bury them in a pelican case in the desert before I turn them in or let them be taken.
Republicans love to forget that as governor, Reagan was very pro gun control when black people started arming themselves.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
If they try for this, the applications for concealed permits will plummet.
American elites when they witness second amendment used against them instead of immigrants and queers.
I chucked though this would mean that the American solutions are…short-term? Headlines will fleet, the ruling class will become a little bit more vigilant. And then shit will return to business as usual. Unless this sparks a mass movement.
So… The murder of a CEO of a horrible company leads to better conditions for everyone?
I would probably break a ton of rules on lemmy to suggest any further actions based on this result, so I’m not going to.
^But, you know…^
Unfortunately I’m afraid this will only be a very short term gain for society. In the longer term CEO-s will just muscle-up. They’ll hire a whole bunch more security and bodyguards, armored vehicles, taller, concrete fences around their properties and show their faces even less in public. All on company expense, so from our, their consumers’ money of course. They will become even more isolated, secluded and cut off from society, more paranoid and resentful about the rest of us, mere ‘plebs’.
I’m not saying I don’t understand why people are celebrating. But I don’t think that this murder will help steer back society, inequality and corporate greed into a healthier, better direction. Instead it is just another step along the path to the dystopian future shown in so-so many sci-fi literature and movies. Where 99% of society has been delegated to a complete slave-like status, with ZERO financial security, self-determination, healthcare access and freedom while they spend day and night labouring endlessly, just to not starve or freeze to death. Which they still might, if they get in an accident or an illness which bankrupts them.
Meanwhile the 1% will reap ALL the benefits from the work of all the rest of us and they’ll live like no king has ever lived before. Possibly their lifes extended to hundreds of years, flying around the planet between their mansions from party to party.
Murdering one or two CEO-s will not prevent this future I think. We will need a much, much wider show of rejection of this future if we want to stop it. We will need protests, demonstrations and show of unity. The rich will try to prevent this in every possible way. They will call the protesters terrorists, fundamentalists. Police will treat them as criminals and jail or even kill many of them. But if the society-wide rejection of this dystopian future is not shown in full force, it WILL HAPPEN.
Drones are cheap and no security is defending against explosives falling on people.
The amount of weight a drone can carry is pretty limited. And the low tech easily made at home explosives are fairly heavy.
However, even if it was viable, the 1% will have everything right down to paper airplanes made illegal.Russia uses armoured ground drones that look like mini tanks with armor resistant to bullets. They are used as explosive suicide drones. While there are large quadcopters for payload applications, this is the easiest delivery method.
Ehhhh these days you could 3d print a shell and use ball bearings for shrapnel. Iirc the ones in ukraine at first were just hobbyist drones (still are to some extent) and the explosives were mostly rigged up (still are to some extent). They won’t be as good as what ukraine has evolved into today (unless you take the tips they’ve learned along the way) but they’d still be something.
The Ukraine isn’t using improvised explosives for taking out tanks with drones. They use high tech explosives. Sometimes scavenged from unexploded Russian ordinance. Modern CEOs can afford armored limos that are not going to be cracked open using the quantities of improvised explosives that your average drone can carry.
Sure, but may I remind you you said this
The amount of weight a drone can carry is pretty limited. And the low tech easily made at home explosives are fairly heavy.
However, even if it was viable, the 1% will have everything right down to paper airplanes made illegal.To this
Drones are cheap and no security is defending against explosives falling on people.
To which I responded about IEDs, and may I further remind you all of this is within the context of ruthlessly murdering CEOs on the streets in America. Unless you and the other guy are expecting uparmored mechsuits to become the newest fashion accessory for the uber-wealthy, an IED on soft, fleshy meat will work out just fine. Hell maybe you don’t kill him (with the first one) you just cripple him for life (or until the second hits), but it’s certainly not doing nothing. Even if they trade their limos and private jets for Bradleys and A-10 Thunderbolt IIs, they have to exit them sometime.
And you can make drones as illegal as you want to btw, this guy was killed in a city where guns are basically illegal with a gun, in a state where suppressors are damn near illegal with a suppressor, and an illegal federally out the box Temu suppressor at that, and hobbyist drones are a thing. Ukraine is building them in sheds right now. It can be done. Even an uparmored limo isn’t an APC, you can still disable some of those with a damn .50 BMG (which aren’t becoming illegal any time soon, the gun control advocates aren’t even looking at those until they get semi banned.)
Unfortunately I’m afraid this will only be a very short term gain for society. In the longer term CEO-s will just muscle-up. They’ll hire a whole bunch more security and bodyguards, armored vehicles, taller, concrete fences around their properties and show their faces even less in public. All on company expense, so from our, their consumers’ money of course. They will become even more isolated, secluded and cut off from society, more paranoid and resentful about the rest of us, mere ‘plebs’.
All of their security needs to be working 100% correctly 100% of the time. Anyone going after them only needs one time with one opening. They can never be safe forever. Maybe it turns into sniper nests, maybe it turns into hacked together hobby drones with bombs.
At the end of the day there is nothing they can do if the 99% rise against them.
Let them turtle up. It won’t save them. This is the fourth turning. And they’re on the menu.
Fourth turning?
You know how people say history repeats or rhymes or whatever?
That rhyming scheme is a series of 4 stages. We’re in the 4th one now.
Google it. Pretty interesting stuff.
There is a good onion piece on how the media is struggling to find a motive along the permitted divisiveness issues it helps narrate.
This is temporary. Surely the pro hamas antifa climate alarmist radical left will need to a harsher crack down, or Iran will win. They hate our freedom of having “the best healthcare in the world”, and the great innovation leader that UNH is for technology/AI advancement in cutting “wasteful” cost. We cannot let radical communists interfere in “America’s greatness”
I will call them sansculotte.
I know folks don’t want to hear this, but this anecdote is quite dubious. Big companies don’t move that quickly, especially in a business as complicated as health insurance. There are various plan levels and many individualized, specifically, for certain employers, as well as many elective medications (wegovy anyone?) for this to have been done in a couple of days. There’s no way these CEOs and executives said to just blanket approve all prescriptions. They would just pay a substantial amount for personal security, with company money, while maintaining their profits.
The reason that insurance companies currently exist is to make money. That’s the ONLY reason. Until that changes, the system is likely to get worse, not better.
Unless the public kills one CEO every year or so to keep them in line.
When these claims are denied there are so many pawns in the system that it is so easy to get really angry at and have easy access to. I’m really Glad that at least this went to the top and no one closer to ground level just having to carry out uhcs terrible policies was the victim of this rage.
How about one a week?
We’ll run out at that point. We still need them for… for… uh?
This is a problem I’m okay with having to face
They’ll never run out of people willing to trade their morals for money.
And we’ll never run out of compost! Food for the wyrms!
This, so much. If a CEO makes a conscientious decision that makes stockholders less money, he gets fired. Stockholders sue companies over decisions that are considered less profitable.
And I don’t mean people who invest their 401k’s in mutual funds bullshit. I mean the activist multi millionaire assholes that own full percentage points of companies. These people are the ones that lobby companies and politicians and shape the legal and market landscape.
These fucking people have zero accountability to anyone.
And they convince themselves they have every right to be that way.
I mean the activist multi millionaire assholes that own full percentage points of companies. These people are the ones that lobby companies and politicians and shape the legal and market landscape.
aka The Big Club
(NSFW - language)
God, I bet he would have had some great jokes about this.
either that or brain damage from banging his head on the desk…
Essentially they exist to make the cost of the risk they agree to bear reasonable and affordable to their customers.
The second they fail to serve that purpose they become useless.
Their very existence depends on the same thing that has made them into the shitstains they are: Greed.
It so so damn American to try to fix healthcare with gun violence
Soap Box
Ballot Box
Ammo Box < we have arrived at this pointIdk why anyone is surprised by the outcome of one political party fighting so hard for the ammo box while gutting the other boxes. Like what did they expect?
Wait until you get a $50,000 health insurance bill for non-existent procedures that the doctor and insurance company made up and no one will believe your side of the story.
Hey man we tried to get them banned and shit, they said no so I guess we gotta do it their way
The French have a long history of politically motivated violence
No, they have sharp history
Nah man. It’s pretty revolutionary. Which is pretty not American.
It used to be
That’s part of the American mythos that’s honestly not much more than brainwashing. There is no “revolutionary American spirit.” Not since the country was founded, actually. Sure, leaving the British, but then…nothing. I don’t think we can call something that last happened in the 1700s “part of who we are.” We are the face of global hegemony and capitalism.
We’re not all still sperm just because that’s how we became people, yknow what I mean?
That’s literally what the second amendment is about.
The idea isn’t necessarily to overthrow the military with a coup. It’s to make those in power afraid to piss off enough people that they can’t walk down the street without some random person with a gun going after them.
Are we expected to believe that this is actually happening?
Really…this has /ThatHppened all over it
Why so scared guys? I thought motive was unclear.
Goddammit, how do I give you Lemmy Gold?
There you go
I love this an RIP Lemmy.
If there was a way to make a Lemmy gold that is basically a donate for the instance the user is on that would be pretty cool.
So if someone gets a “gold” it means that the person who gave it donated to the instance that person is on, or the instance the giver was on
Wish this happened three weeks ago when my wife’s chemo dosage approval got held up.
I guess the lesson is to shoot early and shoot often.
Apply again. Terms may have changed
It actually finally went through and she had her infusion on Wednesday at an Optum facility, quite coincidentally.
Yea no way that’s true. I mean I wish it was but these greedy fucks aren’t gonna stop being greedy.
They could be more cooperative for a couple of weeks while this story dies out, if people forget, they will increase the denies even more the recuperate the missed revenue.
It could be a calculated loss strategy that buys them good optics.
While this story is in the news cycle people have the opportunity to build positive bias by having their claims approved for a few days.
Edit: Not to say that it is true at all, but it would be a valid strategy for them for a week or so
Regardless of stance on assassinations, very big positives can come from this event.
Congress/GOP is less likely to eliminate medicare, and the insurance sector is behaving in “self regulation” the GOP says all companies can do.
It’s very symptomatic of how blatantly immoral and disgusting capitalism is: The only time capitalists will stop gouging themselves with money directly from other people’s suffering is when they fear for their own lives. You, they’ll happily let die for profit otherwise.
I’m happy that there was a change for these folks. There is not doubt about that. As someone that just sort of lived without insurance for a big portion of my life, and I still don’t have a doctor/gp, and have had problems with doctors and specialists cancelling on me after ER visits I am really confused what to think.
I’ve got to rethink all of this violence as an option to stop the rich from playing fuck fuck. it still feels gross that CEO had to be murdered to create change. But I am happy if this post is working with facts of people getting access to medicine and healthier life experiences.
Was there ever a big societal change for the better without blood?
You know, kinda like our genetic cousins murdering the greedy guy who hogs all the bananas.
The collapse of the German Democratic Republic was peaceful.
It also did not happen in a vacuum, and the collapse of the Eastern bloc was not really peaceful.
Also, in my anecdotal experience, the harder break a country did from that system, the better they are doing now.
That’s how it works.
Usually the quote is about all political power coming from the end of a rifle, but I guess this time it was a pistol.
The quote I’ve always heard is “Change comes through the barrel of a gun” so it still works with a pistol.
Especially if you stuff pennies down the barrel
“Power comes from the end of a rifle” is the version that I’ve heard that comes to mind. But the point stands, it’s a metaphor, and the metaphor is about when the use of violence is acceptable, not what type of violence is used.
And I suppose pistols are rifled.
The usual translation is “political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.” It’s a Mao Zedong quote.
Thank you, now that I hear it, yeah. I forgot it was a translation that I was remembering, and thus more easily misremembering.
Edit: Though I think the first version I read was “stem” rather than “barrel”. That was probably just the translator being…flowery…though.
Nice double entendre
Maybe the silencer is what made all the difference.
If he does it again I hope he uses a loudener
The shot still not heard around the world. At least by anyone screwed by insurance companies, I believe it’s a pre-existing condition called “Deafness to justified anger being served”
This is just trying to adapt to stay alive (the industry, not the people) when they really should be utterly destroyed in favor of single payer healthcare. Don’t let up because they’re behaving like they have a gun pointed at their corporate person and promising the holder anything to keep making billions.
Someone do the math on how long it takes before an other one needs to be taken down a peg again for the insurance to keep doing their job.
Tricky with just one data point. If we assume the rate of denials has dropped to zero (from a previous poster, again just a single data point), and that in time that rate will pick up again, we’ll need to know what effect the next murder has, if the rate again drops to zero or hovers somewhere above it, then we should be able to come up with a reasonable estimate of how many denials a CEO is worth. The rate at which denials picks up again will in any case give a good initial estimate of that with no second murder needed, but more data will lead to greater accuracy.
