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- cross-posted to:
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One problem is I don’t trust the asshole drivers around me to not damage my expensive vehicle. The other problem is that I don’t have $800/m to throw away on a vehicle that loses that much in value every month.
I don’t need all of these fancy features. I need a basic bitch car that gets me from point a to point b and has enough trunk space for groceries.
Thank you for putting the word on my mind down. This is exactly what I want also. No bullshit smarts and apps, just a simple car with the basics
They’re coming, and in some places of the world are already there. China is absolutely pumping out massive volumes of affordable EVs, and are exporting them to SE Asia, and Europe.
MG, BYD and Ora are the first few brands that come to mind. The quality may not be to the highest standards, but they’re no slouches either.
Chinese made cars were absolute jokes 10-15 years ago, but due to the way the CCP forced brands to manufacture cars in China - they’ve been able to improve their own designs around twice as fast as Hyundai/Kia did: Remember how God-aweful those cars were in the 90s? Now look at something like the Ioniq 5.
If you don’t believe me, fair enough - but also consider that Volvo/Polestar have been majority Chinese-owned for a while now, and make some really good semi-luxury cars.
This is the reason I still keep my old car around. 20 years old and it doesn’t have all of the bells and whistles but made it very easy to maintain. The alternator died once and the car can still run normally without a battery powering it.
I have two cars and both those payments combined are under $500. I’m not paying $800 a month for one damn car.
That’s not even including car insurance which has been skyrocketing everywhere
Right?! I pay $380 a month for my car, a very comfortable and efficient Kia Forte. Sometimes I take a look at other cars that are around $30k, only $5k more than I paid for the Kia, and somehow the car payments are $600 a month! Not even sort of worth it
So what you’re saying is you won’t buy any new car, EV or not. What is the point of your comment?
I’m curious how popular small commuter vehicles would be. People spend a few thousand on ebikes and scooters. Would two seats with minimal cargo room, be the kind of thing that could be sold for 4-8k?
For fucks sake it should be. Most commutes don’t need cargo space.
Pretty much this.
Spoken like someone with no kids who always lived near a grocery store
False on both counts Bubba. Let me guess, you drive your extended cab f150 everywhere “just incase” you need it?
Grocery shopping shouldn’t need to happen more than every couple days. Really once or twice a week should be enough. And do both you and your spouse need to go grocery shopping every day? Maybe one of you drives the small vehicle and the other the family vehicle?
Don’t get me wrong, I also prefer to have the extra space, but I’m planning on buying a small hybrid truck so at least I am being more fuel efficient with it.
That’s already available now as the Smart Fortwo Electric, and it’s nearly $30k.
30k is a problem. It’s in the same price bracket as inexpensive ICE SUVs.
I’m not saying it isn’t. I’m just saying you’ll likely never see one brand new under $10K like you want, or even under $20K.
I really like the idea of the Aptera for this.
Lowest could potentially be 25k but essentially free to operate, and hopefully easier to repair than mainstream evs, which very much are not.
But they haven’t fully climbed the startup hill so I’ll have to wait and see.
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Wow, 0 to 100 km/h in 4 seconds, solar powered and looks like made by Gutamaya! Shuddup an’ take my money! I hope it takes off and vehicles like this become the norm for commuting.
I’d buy one tomorrow.
I’ve hunted hard as fuck for a Kei truck as it’d be perfect for my rural use case and not cost a ton and not take up a ton of room
Illegal where I live because fuck you
love it but whats the crash safety rating? the smart cars have engineered great survivability.
While I definitely agree that the price of EVs are too damn high, we also have to take a look at the current trend of automakers phasing out their entire affordable car lines. They don’t want to sell cars working people can afford.
They are in it for the money, not for combating climate change.
What I’d really like is an electric car that is a bit larger than a podbike. Or classified as a L7e or motorcycle. Something ultra light (<100kg) and can drive up to 80km (50mph).
Or alternatively allow bicycles / velomobiles to have pedal assist driving up to 50kmh(30mph) and 500W motors.
No longer manufactured and sold according to Wikipedia and its successor, the mobilize duo, is only available as a subscription not a purchase. Absolutely fuck no to paying a subscription for a car rather than a purchase
Something that light at that speed is a fucking death sentence
Cars are big because they need to crumble, absorb energy, and redirect it
Not necessarily. First, ban huge pickups from private use (make them commercial licence only); second, tax heavier than 2000 kg vehicles. If you make small, light vehicles the norm you’ll make roads safer for everyone. Crumple zones etc can be made from composite materials and eg glass fiber is cheap, light and durable.
Remember that an F1 car is surprisingly small and light, yet the driver can walk away from truly awful high speed crashes. We don’t need to mandate firesuits and neck restraint devices for road traffic, but at city and intercity road speeds (in Europe, typically 50 and 90 km/h) a small light car can be reasonably safe.
No, still not safe. Even relatively heavier small vehicles fold like paper in a crash. Also, at least in my country, banning pickups would cripple the local economy and instantly result in riots. Most farmers would just get fucked
Trying a crash in a light vehicle is up to you, I’ll be sure to remember to bring roses for your grave
I live in a rural area and only about 2% of the pickups I see have anything in the back or any sign of being used off-road. Anyone who is moving stuff is using a tractor and trailer or a van.
Here every farmer has a beaten up, old piece of junk gas guzzler Zamiad truck, they move produce with it. Take that away and they’re practically fucked. Vans require a van license and are expensive as fuck, and trailers are basically unheard of and I think against road regulations
Those regulations sound like a French bureaucrats wet dream, which country are you in?
Iran
Try to build your own car (with car building knowledge) in America and try to get it on the road legally. You can’t.
That’s because of inequality. It’s the same in most industries now - if you want to make money you have to be in the luxury market. Working people have been bled dry.
This totally misses the point. Automakers would make cheaper cars if they could get the adoption, but the input cost for Lithium for LFP batteries or Nickel and Cobalt for NMC batteries has skyrocketed. Lithium was as high as 4Xs the cost Pre-Covid, for example
Since the input cost is so much higher, premium was the initial target until the supply chain improved and reduced cost. I mean that’s exactly what Tesla did. It’s just not getting broad support because a lot of people are wary of buying EV over range or charging anxiety.
I think PHEVs are the perfect way to get people over range anxiety. I know my Volt has effectively a gallon of gas worth of range or 40 miles. That’s enough range to do 90% of the driving I do in a week if I charge after drive. Groceries, daycare, and work (1 way, with charging stations). I think a lot of families are used to having my car and my spouses car where now it’s looking like EV for short local trips and ice for longer trips. I think PHEVs will help teach folks about what kind of range they actually need even if they are charging at home everyday.
Now we have the luxury of a garage, which seems like a major hurdle to mass adoption. More so, than range anxiety.
Hurdles from my perspective :
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Price, Price, Price
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No Garage These are tied together as the people who can afford a garage are the same people that can likely aslp afford an EV. Similar target markets.
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High Used Prices
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Low Supply
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Drivers own lack of awareness of their driving habits.
Red Herring in the media: Our grid can’t handle it!
This is something I hear my boomer mother say even though she’s a perfect candidate for an EV.
Wouldn’t high used prices be good for new car buyers? To be fair, EVs plummeted in value in the 2H23 and are now in line with the broader market
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Most automakers won’t, any time soon.
The lessons they took away from the COVID lockdown era are that it’s better to sell lower volumes with higher mark-up. Their business models are shifting away from high-volume, low-margin sales.
Why sell 100 cheap cars with a $2K margin, and deal with all those potential warranty/recall issues - when you can sell 10 top-of-the-line variants with a $20K+ margin, and continue to rake in extra with higher service costs, finance fees and the like.
They don’t have a $20k margin on EVs. They’re barely break even and often lose money. They sell them for CO2 credits
