Time to play some France France Revolution.
Wanted to dunk on US voter participation, but got corrected.
Maybe the French wouldn’t need to protest 24/7 if they actually voted. Like wtf is this XD
How are you famous for protests and revolutions, but don’t participate afterwards XD
Look at the results: one of the lowest retirement ages is Europe, universal healthcare, very progressive tax system. Maybe if Americans disconnected Joe Manchin from the electrical grid and made Washington DC a no go zone once in a while they would actually get something done.
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.
Yes, like the insurrection? Always remember, both sides can do that.
Edit: Oh so now violent revolution attempts are not OK.
All this guillotine and revolution rhetoric suddenly just memes? Like the slurs in ye’ old gamer chats?
Then what is protest good for, if not getting votes?
Insurrection != political protest.
Do cause a ruckus in the city streets.
Do not attempt to invade the capitol and/or murder the government.
Not even a little murder? Please?
Keep murder in your back pocket.
My prison wallet?
MY prison wallet now. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Just like a hammer, political protest is a tool. Using a hammer to smash a nail in a wall: good. Using a hammer to smash someones brain in: bad.
Because intentions are totally irrelevant.
Yes, when turnabout is invoked you don’t get to say “but I was right!” as if they’ll just stop and recognize that
the French get more of what they want than Americans
how the fuck can you say you participate and have a voice if you just vote then do nothing for 2/4 years? never apply any pressure? never make them afraid of you?
Idk, where you are from, but there are a lot more elections. Most levels of government somehow get elected. Then there is Citizens participation, like local hearings, letters etc.
“Just vote” doesn’t mean go elect the president and let all other levels and branches of government be decided by others.
uh huh.
in noticing youre still saying “politics” begins and ends at elections. and I’m saying you are why Donald trump (as a political entity) exists.
They live under an even stricter presidential Republic than the US with no regional rights or autonomy, and with a policing system founded by an actual fucking Nazi collaborator with all the brutality that entails, where using gender neutral language even in your own personal writings gets you accused of being a woke college elitist, where a Holocaust Denier’s daughter has nearly become the highest official of the land twice on a coalition with members who call for a French reconquista, and where the existence of Algeria as an independent state is still considered a sore spot with a large voting demographic of the French boomers.
But they got healthcare and stuff so totally a socialist utopia compared to America and clearly everything their people do works perfectly every damn time
Question, if the French style of rioting works so much better than voting? Why do they have to keep doing it over the same damn shit far more often than they vote?
Question, if the French style of rioting works so much better than voting? Why do they have to keep doing it over the same damn shit far more often than they vote?
So I leave work the other day and it’s pretty dark out and some guy walks up to me and asks me for my wallet. He says he has a knife, but fuck that, right? So we fight and I stab him and run and take the subway home. Question, why is this other dude outside my subway station also asking me for my wallet? Did stabbing the first guy not work? Why do I need to stab multiple thieving motherfuckers per subway ride?
Idk man, I mean we could preemptively stab everyone hanging out near subway stations, just like we could stab anyone running for office. But then we’re “anarchists” and “murderers” and “lack moral fiber” and “what if a really nice guy wants to take the subway and enter politics?”
It would be pretty cool though. Just to watch these thieving cunts get aggroed first, for a change. We’re always just waiting for them to make the first wrong move, would be pretty nice to deny them the chance for once.
so, speaking as someone living under a literal segregationist, whose predecessor and current opponent for next election is a literal Nazi whose father was a Nazi?
where the cops here murder you in your home for fun then annoint your fucking corpse with cocaine and a ceremonial gun to make it all okay, then if anyone sues it comes out if teacher pay?
oh wow healthcare. I have stories about that here. mostly body horror.
gender neutral language gets you called a ‘woke elitist’ here too.
we certainly aren’t doing better than them. and look, they have fucking healthcare and get to mostly live inside and their food isn’t all either plastic or poison! yeah their government are racist assholes, but that does seem at least somewhat representative, according to you, so maybe thats just the ugly side of the system working?
Protests and revolutions get actual change, voting isn’t as effective. That’s not to say that voting is useless, but that meaninful change comes from force.
Politicians just ignore protests, especially if they’re peaceful, so they don’t directly cause change.
The purpose of a protest is to get media coverage for an issue, because that may convince viewers to vote a certain way. Those votes - or at least the threat of voting someone out of office - is what actually causes change.
Revolutions are a different story. They can change things much faster than voting, but they’re volatile and can easily end up worse than before. The people leading a revolution are usually not the people you want to lead a revolution (e.g. the Jan 6 insurrection in the US).
Protests are don’t do much if they don’t carry revolutionary threat. The Civil Rights Movement only worked because there was genuine revolutionary pressure.
The civil rights movement worked, because the did “non violence” and got a bunch of pictures into the news, of them getting beaten. This lead to empathy and votes.
The revolution and violence part was something completely separate and on the whole mostly counterproductive/irrelevant.
This is ahistorical. The civil disobediance was extremely disruptive and errupted in riots regularly. This is coupled with the Black Panther Party practicing open millitancy. There was genuine threat to the status quo, and this forced concessions. It isn’t a coincidence that the US state has attempted to whitewash MLK Jr.'s historical legacy.
The state did not bend merely because it was the right thing to do, they bent because if they did not, they standed to lose more.
“change must come from the barrel of a gun”
It doesn’t even need to be direct. Cut off supply lines via striking, hurt the profits, and concessions come. The fascists will use every tool in their arsenal, but they can’t last.
Because the French voting system is flawed, the politicians are corrupt and the choices we are given to vote for presidents are anything between ultra liberal capitalism and full-on fascism…
Also your right to protest is well protected.
If you try to protest in the US like France you might as well fucking die lol. Either the cops are going to shoot you or you lose your job after day 4 or less of protesting and your kids starve / you can no longer pay for the gas to get to the protest.
Correct. I think bundling health insurance with employment is primarily to force everyone to work and artificially lower the cost of labor, but a side benefit of forcing everyone to live paycheck to paycheck is they have no time to agitate for change. Also you will be pepper sprayed in the face or beaten half to death by goons backed by the state.
That bundle of insurance or benefits with work was originally a fringe benefit to inflate value of positions iirc, but in current times yeah I think you got it.
Damn, that sounds familiar as a murican.
Sounds like excuses. Voting is pretty basic, even if it’s flawed.
I’ve not missed a single vote since I’m 18yo, but I understand people who are too fed up to go vote, sadly…
I understand it, but it’s still pretty dumb.
People whine (rightly) about money in politics. You know what that money is used for? Propaganda and media and campaign staff to get votes.
You understand idiots who are giving the game away because not getting a unicorn out of it makes them amgy?
You can be frustrated, but if you then choose not to vote you’re just feeding the problem out of spite.
It doesn’t matter how frequently someone votes, if they don’t fake an orgasm at the prospect of their choices being shit and worse shit, some centrist will lecture them anyway.
You sound like some who has never voted.
Last time, I forced myself to vote for Mister Money-for-the-rich despite the fact I hate everything he wrote in his program, I thought I was doing the right thing by participating to “blockade” Miss Nazis-did-nothing-wrong.
Well, just a few months later, it was the elections for parlement représentants and the winning president and his “Party of rich”, they just fucked all of us right up in any circonscriptions they got eliminated, they just stated publicly “don’t vote for the commies ! They are a danger for the democracy ! (Vote for the Nazis instead, we like their ideas better, but you didn’t hear it from me lol”.
Now we have Mr Money-for-the-rich as president and Party of rich has the most sits (but no majority) and they are the danger for democracy as every time they fail to vote a law they proposed to fuck us deeper (despite getting help from all the racists on the right side of the room), they use a loop-hole to make it law without vote.
So, yes. I understand someone who doesn’t want to get up and queue 2 hours on a Sunday morning to go vote for a person who will ultimately humiliate you at every occasion he has.
You sound like someone who doesn’t have any skin in the game if the Nazis actually win by voting when you didn’t.
Lemme guess, you’re someone who twists with fury whenever Americans point out the Roma situation when you talk about how not racist Europe is compared to America because, “that’s different they deserve that!”
I get it, you and other non voters aren’t idiots, you’re the white communists who knowingly gave up the names of French Arab resistance leaders to the Nazis as the front line began to push back towards Germany again because nobody but you is allowed to control the “we kept out the Nazis” field.
You might be projecting yourself a little bit too much here, my friend. I am a voter, I never missed a vote in my life since I am 18yo. And I don’t know what you’re on about with your 4-chan copy-pasta.
That chart is so inaccurate. The us parliamentary turnout is zero.
My bad, must be a rounding error
sobs in parliamentary democracy advocate
In fairness 2020 was an exceptional turnout year due to COVID necessitating a development of vote by mail infrastructure, which led to about 40 million more people participating than was the norm before, IDK if that held in 22 but yeah, making voting more convenient leads to more voting, whoda thunk it‽
True, and we dont give a fuck about fixing the economy, we’d rather fix libéralisme/capitalism. Getting rid of the political elite making the business-people elite richer would be a good start. All in all the situation is still much better here from a social rights perspective, but we’re following US steps and setting a perfect ground for fascism (which is already on the rise). And far right people vote. And old people who are mostly ‘republicans’ vote a lot too. And the political elite knows it and targets them. So we’re pretty fucked.
Which doesn’t mean we won’t riot.
They forgot to reserve their right to (literally) hold the gun to their politicians heads. Took back all the power over themselves, just hand it over to some new guys with no durable strings attached.
Still doing pretty damn well compared to countries like Hungary who came full circle in a matter of years.
Be the France Americans think you are
It’s been some time since citizen action actually led to pregress in France.
We had worker’s rights improvements thanks to strikes, occupations and violence against the factorie’s bosses at the start of 20th century, which in turned fueled a socialist movement that got a real left elected in 1936 - to which we owe,among other stuff, mandatory pto for everyone.
We had a great social security system built after ww2, because the resistance against nazis was mostly made of communists and all the major firms had collaborated so they did not have much of a say (some were nationalized when the war ended).The latest thing I can think of is from the 90s, when the legal weekly work time was reduced to 35hrs (you can still work overtime but your employer has to pay you more).
But the nineties is also the point where the left started losing power, and lots of good thing started being undone (salaries stopped rising with inflation, taxbreaks for the rich and the big companies started multiplying…).In the last two decades, most of our protests and strikes were not to gain new rights and make our lives better, but to try and stop rights being taken away (alas with little to no success): retirement, workers negotiation power, social security, unemployment…
All of it is under attack from the right (which is in power since then) in what looks like a continued effort to move towards the american ultraliberal way of doing things. Health, education, transportation and retirement for exemple are becoming increasingly privatised - it’s easy to do, cut the funding of the public services, watch them drown, accuse them of not being efficient enough, introduce new legislation to make space for the private sector.I really wish we’d revolt again, and the “gilets jaunes” from 2018-2020 seemed like a step in the right direction (not perfect of course, and the far-right succeded a little in being included in the movement) but was stopped first with extreme police brutality then by the lockdown and it never got rolling again.
Recently, American worker’s unions look a lot more french than the french ones do, and I hope we’ll be able to get some inspiration from you !
As an American that strongly advocates for direct action, this depresses me (further). If taking to the streets still doesn’t get anything done, what hope is there? Any progress our government makes from within the system is so incrementally small that it’s not going to prevent our grandchildren surviving the world that capitalist-driven climate change is creating, and that’s even if all progress doesn’t get completely undone the instant the Republicans get the presidency again (the Democrats have not had two consecutive presidents since 1964, and that was due to JFK’s assassination. There hasn’t been two consecutive elected Democrats since 18-fucking-56).
As an American that strongly advocates for direct action, this depresses me (further). If taking to the streets still doesn’t get anything done, what hope is there?
Have hope, but be smarter about it, we need to strategize, out in the open (because keeping a secret from the state in 2024 is all but impossible), with the clear realization of what our oppressors are willing and able to do to stop us. People online seem to think that real change can only come from enough of us getting pissed simultaneously and taking to the streets, but what does sending a very strong signal to someone that doesn’t care really get us? …or violent full-on revolution but that strategy is impossible to grow and is likely to backfire big time. We need to consciously evolve our culture to not need a state.
–> The state cannot exist, any state is a target for the power hungry to take over and start the cycle over again.
That government that stops or slows our progress, it’s made out of people. I’m a bit older, I saw the “Tea Party” in the U.S. go from a few excited people giving a speech at Sizzler to causing problems for the whole world. Why can’t people that want to make things better do that?
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We need to get more good people into office at any level possible, to demilitarize the police, prevent book bans, help prevent ordinances against protesting, guerilla gardening, etc.
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We need more people to run to vote even if they can’t win to influence the Overton Window and call out the right wingers
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We need people to form and join worker’s co-ops. Why isn’t there a local co-op pizza shop, bike shop?
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We need people building community that is separate from capitalist interests. What does this look like?
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Learn to garden, plan harvests and food sharing with neighbors to save money and be less dependent on the fragile system.
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Garage bars, dinner parties, tiki parties, BBQs, block parties. Anything that gets neighbors talking and having fun and building shared interests.
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Walking and riding around your neighborhood making friends, knowing faces
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There hasn’t been two consecutive elected Democrats since 18-fucking-56).
pre 1940s I’d say this isn’t really an issue. there were a lot of dixiecrat shitbags, but thanks to the southern strategy things kinda reversed.
The problem is that the french workers going on strike has basically become a meme. Look at Canteloup’s Monsieur Regis character. SNCF go on strike for fun and no one really knows why.
The last major strikes were because of the retirement age raising to 62. The rest of the world looked on and thought “I’d love to retire at the age you are all complaining about”. Hell, I don’t even WANT to retire at 62! What will I do with myself?
I agree with the part about french workers on strike becoming a meme, but I wanna stress that it didn’t happen by itself.
It’s the result of voluntary and sound political strategies from our (economically) liberal governments.
Step 1: “let’s make a very offensive law proposition”
Step 2: workers go on strike.
Step 3: “okay let’s take back the worst point and still applythe rest”
Step 4: workers’ lives are worst despite the strike and the unions lose power and credibility
Sprinkle in the fact that most media were bought by billionaires who aren’t too fond of workers’ rights, a few corrupt union leaders and you get the current situation.It’s interesting that you mention SNCF (state-owned - for now - french railway) because the always make the reason of their strikes clear and (spoiler) it’s never for fun. But when strikes occur, most of the media interview people who wanted to go to work/on holiday by train and can’t because of the strike, “economists” who rant about the hundreds of k€ losses for businesses because of the strike, some ass***e from the government who stated “we think the right of strike and protest is very important, but not when it bothers other people” and never the union’s heads or the sociologists who can explain how the previous laws have made life worse for the rail workers and how the current one is gonna be worst.
Oh mon gars I wish
What is more American than dehumanizing the next person?
