- Russia’s yuan reserves are nearly depleted due to Chinese banks’ fear of US sanctions.
- Lenders have urged Russia’s central bank to address the yuan deficit, causing the ruble to drop.
- China’s hesitance stems from US threats of secondary sanctions over Russia’s Ukraine war financing.
Sanctions work.
This is what frustrates me so much about people in the US arguing against supporting Ukraine. At the end of the day, while China might be willing to help Russia, the US is by far it’s largest customer. Add to that China’s own economy is contracting, and supporting Ukraine against Putin, along with the severe sanctions that have been in place, is the smartest most cost effective way of hopefully removing him from power. I have a co-worker who got out of Russia a little over a year ago, and he said it was pretty bad before he and his family left. Unfortunately, it’s a slow process because the goal is to get the Russian people to oust him. We all know that’s not going to happen at the ballot box, so all that’s left is the people overthrowing their leaders. Things have to get pretty dire before a population like Russia’s gets to that tipping point.
This is a marathon. The main thing is keeping Ukraine strong and able to defend itself. I’m really liking the offensives into Russian territory they’ve been carrying out. I just want them to remember a defensive position is easier to maintain/win than an offensive one. In other words, don’t try to go to far into Russia. Way way too many great generals have made that mistake!
US is by far it’s largest customer
That’s true and there’s also more to it.
The US is China’s largest single trading partner but China has many many trading partners.
May nations now trade or at least negotiate in blocks. Both ASEAN and the UE, as blocks, do more trade with China than the US does. When it comes to individual nations the US isn’t as far ahead as it might seem. Russia, Vietnam and Taiwan together trade more with China than the US does, despite having a combined GDP that’s a tiny fraction of the US.
The key issue is that China has been working really hard to make itself less dependent on the US. They still have a way to go but they’re much less vulnerable than they were a few years ago.
Fair points, but I would also add that while the US isn’t a block, they do hold sway with a number of other countries. NATO is also involved in this equation. China also has significant investments in the US. I don’t fault China for seeing economic opportunity in Russia, but they have to walk a pretty fine line if they’re going to make it work.
China knows that the US has a lot of economic leverage. They’ve been working very hard to change that and a lot of those efforts have flown under the radar.
BRI is pretty obvious and it’s seen as one of the major reason the ASEAN countries are pivoting towards China. But consider the whole South China Sea issue. Everyone frames it as a contest over sea resources and few people consider the strait of Malacca. It’s a potential choke point for all trade west of Southeast Asia. While China is working to be able to defend that they’re also working with Thailand to build a canal that would bypass the straight of Malacca all together. All of that is primarily to reduce US leverage and those initiatives tend to work more often than they fail.
working with Thailand to build a canal that would bypass the straight of Malacca all together
This is a crazy pipe dream by the Thai PM, China has nothing to do with it. It doesn’t make any sense to unload ships in Thailand, move them by train across the peninsula, and then reload them onto ships. They can go via other routes in Indonesia if they don’t want to go through the straight of Malacca for some reason. The Thai PM is just jealous that all the shipping trade (and money) goes to Singapore and Malaysia because it is easier for the boats to stop there.
They’d be better off if they weren’t actively committing genocide. Weird how we don’t hear about it though. Disgusting.
Not fast enough. I agree they work, but often times it hurts all the people, and the ones that have “say” often are slow to help their fellow people.
Hence, the point of sanctions.
How is hurting everyone the point?
To piggyback on @[email protected], the point of sanctions is to create an extreme economic cost to a state as a bargaining chip. Stop doing the thing we don’t like and you get your trade back. Unfortunately, states control the national currency (most of the time), which means anyone who uses that currency also gets hit. There is no way around that.
Politically speaking, a majority of Russians have been utterly disenfranchised from politics, repeating the refrain “I’m not political” like it’s a magic spell that will ward off the consequences of their government. Consequently I’m not that sad about them experiencing a bit of economic hardship. Maybe it’ll help them realize that politics isn’t just for politicians.
Their country, their responsibility.
The Germans learned that lesson the hard way.
Exactly. In any semi-functional democracy the government isn’t some abstract entity you have no power over, and it’s not monolithic either (you have municipal, regional and national levels). You vote for the people in it and they represent you.
Incrimental economical hardships get obfuscated by the state so no one draws a line between that and the war, or if they do, they have 1000+1 reasons why it went this way thanks to propaganda. Until it is a direct shock treatment at some industries, it would be toned down by the effort of local economical institutions. I’m the outlier in buying things in non-chinese services and following western media it seems, and slowing down the YouTube was the first event when I noticed many previously apolitical person to find their ways to circumvent the ban.
The most energized groups are those of recent soldiers and their families, and their protests get shut down fast. It’s genuinely afraid of them. And it feels like the way it would happen.
Maybe. The point of the sanctions isn’t to cause unrest though, as I said, it’s to apply pressure to the state. If it happens to cause some unrest, that’s an unlikely side-benefit.
What can hurt it in your opinion?
Military stuff is out of the picture since they established their trade with CCP and NK for rockets and found their ways to get European chips. They are investigated, but slowly.
My guess is that a lot of ingredients used in their production lines of food are imported, like specific kinds of yeast to make bread and beer or something like that. I wonder if sanctions targeting non-consumer products critical to producing them can lead to long pauses I’d read about in military once some key suppliers got cut off.
No, you’re right, we can’t do anything beyond harsh criticism, no, even that’s too far, what if we hurt some of the genocider’s feelings?
They’re sending their kids into a meat grinder because they hope other people’s kids will feel more pain in that same meat grinder.
I didn’t say that.
How have sanctions changed anything?
China is pulling all their funding from Russia due to sanctions. That’s the article we’re in the comments of.
Chinese businesses. “All” is not true. And what changes will this result in?
There is no other way
If people are gonna down vote at least have the guts to propose a different option. Down voting doesn’t change reality.
What examples of sanctions on a country have seen change? Regime, attitudes, or the like.
The goal is to make the cost of waging war increasingly painful to pay. There is no other way to effectively do this than to target the entire country.
Off the top my head, the sanctions on Iran were pretty effective to get them to negotiate the nuclear deal. Until Trump tore that one up, that is.
I understand what sanctions are supposed to achieve, but I would like examples of when that has actually happened.
The alternative is usually waiting until the other side goes too far and you have to go to war.
Though in Russia’s case, that would take 5 minutes before they bombed their own kremlin by mistake.
I’m interested in examples not hypotheticals.
Who else will march the street in protest?
Do you have examples of sanctions resulting in protests which have changed something for the better?
Edit: six downvotes and no responses; if the answer in your head, feel free to post instead.
You can’t avoid that in a dictatorship or oligarchy. You freeze all of their money? They will just steal more from the population.
Like a constrictor, squeezing everywhere, untill you can’t breathe.
See: Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, North Korea…
Actually sanctions don’t work at all, what’s happening here is the result of a war of attrition.
Cuba is stubborn and resource efficient, Venezuela is decently resource rich and the sanctions are relatively new, Iran still has some trade partners and is decently rich in resources, North Korea is propped up by China and is kind of an anomaly. Sanctions are rather long term and take certain conditions to work properly, Russia fits those conditions despite them theoretically being resistant to sanctions.
Right, so… they don’t work, they just hurt people. Those are a lot of anomalies which prove the point made.
Nope, most sanctions have a defined purpose even still. The Russian sanctions target their oil export and certain high tech bits of equipment think night vision goggles and cpus. This alone has hindered them rather well in Ukraine to the point id call it an ongoing success. Iran is very similar they just aint as inept as Russia so its been lessened. Venezuela has been on the brink for years now so we’ll see how that works out. And the North Koreans wouldve collapsed five times over by now without China, the operational purpose to the sanctions on them is to basically keep them from getting air and becoming a proper threat. Cuba is just kinda chilling, island nations can just kinda do that sometimes.
I guess the financial market is being reduced to ruble
Maybe they shouldn’t have invaded Ukraine.
the question is if they could still pull out of the war
Putin’s fragile ego won’t allow that.
Ukraine doesn’t have the resources to start some weird revenge conquest, given that their allies fear MAD.
Hot take:
China has lost all faith in Russia. Is reorganizing to reflect that.
And maybe is even considering Taiwan’s advice, lol.
What’s “Taiwan’s advice”? What did Taiwan tell China about Russia?
Taiwan made a sarcastic comment.
Essentially calling out their policy of “Territorial Integrity”, they told them to take back land they gave to Russia
I am always neutral on this sort of thing (i.e. I believe in democracy, and despite what people will have you believe, Taiwan is not a monolith of opinion of the one China / reunification / independence question)
But this is fucking hilarious
Ohhh that one. I see. Thanks.
The president or prime minister said that if China is serious about reclaiming Taiwan, it should also reclaim land that is currently Russian, as that land was also lost during the same time period.
It would also be much easier to conquer than Taiwan.
Hotter take:
China is on the brink of financial collapse and no longer can afford to support Russia’s bullshit.
Wow, that’s too bad. Anyway make sure you’ve got plenty of Rubles in your bathroom for when they make TP the national currency, bub.
The Ruble is worth more now than before the war startedYour graph is showing dollars vs rubles, dumbass. Compare rubles vs dollars over 5 years and it’s the direction we all know it to be. https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/RUBUSD/
I didn’t realize that was different
Both graphs are showing the same thing - Russian currency weakening. Your’s just shows how many rubles it takes to buy a dollar (not something you want going up if you’ve got rubles).
I hope Ukraine takes away their natural gas production next. Gonna be the USSU pretty soon, get fucked Putin.
Well… India is still a partner so Putin still has that…
India is taking advantage of the situation.
It’s understandable that a developing country wants cheap energy, also genuinely sad the world’s largest democracy is funding a dictator’s barbaric land grab.
“world’s largest democracy” run by a fascist, who embraces pogroms against the Muslim minorities and assists Israel in its genocide against palestinians, including sending India troops there.
Of course Israel is best buddies with Modi in the same way they sold drones to Russia after the Crimea annexation, which later helped Russia bomb Ukraine during the main invasion. Neither country is a liberal democracy, nor do they share interests with “the West” past their own immediate advantage.
India is financially supporting colonization of Ukraine by doing business with Russia.
India is supporting colonization.
All India cares about is getting oil and gas for as cheap as possible. Russia has limited markets they can sell their oil to, so India now has tons of leverage and can set their own price. India has their own territorial conflicts with Pakistan and China that they need to worry about. They dont care what Russia does so long as they keep getting cheap oil.
The boot is on the other foot now, I guess.
They were taken advantage of previously; as fucked as it all is, they have no reason to care.
India is touring EU. They have visited Kiyv as well.
Just sayan dot tiff
what happens when they run out? do they have to start buying more yans from somewhere else?
Buy them with what? No one want their rubles 😁and they haven’t enough “stuff” to sell lol.
India only cares about India, so maybe they can seek them more LNG or oil. Maybe Rupies are the new Yuan lol
yes india is set to take them for all the oil they can, at extremely reduced prices, which isn’t good for russia, but great for india.
When they run out then they can’t purchase goods from China.
Well, they can, but the cost will get more volatile… super oversimplified, it’s the difference between drinking at home booze you bought at wholesale prices and keeping a running tab with a local bar/pub. You’ll be subject to the bar and any price changes they (read: the currency markets) want to make.
Theres no such thing as bartering between nations, in order to buy from them requires first selling something or having a creditor.
I’m assuming they have nothing more to sell so they’ll just lose important wartime supplies and general goods access.
but if they run out before they have paid off the money, dont they have to give it back in some way? At least this sounds like it should have more serious consequences than that.
Its very serious to lose important wartime supplies access. I imagine the general populous isn’t happy either, with goods becoming more restricted than even the USSR.
They start using other currencies they have. At some point it will be rubbles. But first it will be currencies their population has.
It would be interesting to see the ruble collapse entirely. Crypto is already very popular in Russia, so the state could lose a tremendous amount of power/funding when they need it most.
Do you feel that Putler? That’s the walls closing in.
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Shh, humans are talking.
I’m selling my extra pea gravel. I’ll try and get an exception for export to ruzzia if necessary. Sure gravel can be used as bullets. But I find that level of indefence acceptable.
Each 1/4" gravel piece will cost just one ruble. And the uses are endless! For example, for several billion rubles you can defend one building! Did I mention that each gravel piece is personally signed by a very hot American woman who will be completely naked while signing it and she will gently touch the tip of her blossoms on every piece before kissing it and telling it a story. Usually she will arrange several thousand pieces around her to tell the story. Usually it’s a reading of an accounting book though. But she will be totally naked.
We, at my backyard pile of gravel company hope that before we run out, there will be at least one ruzzian buried several feet under each one of our beautiful gray colored pieces.
The true value of this very special gravel comes in the field! As each soldier is dropped by those pesky Ukrainians, the location can be specially marked by placing a pieces over the perished. Incredibly, you can then place one in a special counting bag. So if you count 5 pieces later in that bag, that means you had 5 perished guys. And these marker counters last for years and years! No maintenance required! It’s the perfect way of saying thank you. I got at least a cubic yard of this beautiful specimens. 50% off if we switch the model with a very naked mole rat. The rat does all the aforementioned things but in its own native way of communicating with little squeaks.
