I want to make a small post mostly to just spill some thoughts I’ve had recently and to perhaps stir a little discussion. To provide a little something to ponder on in quiet moments for the next few days and to maybe open people up to some new ideas.
What is the prevalence of individuals capable of exceptional, non-conventional actions? I mean individuals who are capable of experiencing, intending, and knowing things that are beyond the scope of convention? Is the answer that there are many? Just a few? None at all? Is the number of such individuals dependent upon the extent to which you are presently capable of accessing your own capacities? Are any of the great or famous characters of history such individuals?
Or are you and you alone the only such person who could presently have such a capacity? Is your current conception of reality compatible with others expressing such non-conventional capacities at all? If not, what would have to be different about how you conceive of the world? How might you go about changing your conception of the potential of reality?
I know that most of us, even in weird communities like this, still routinely experience the world around us as stale and unmagical. Even if it is idealistic and not physicalist in nature, that doesn’t instantly make it appear to us as full of magic. Why not? If currently-unconventional and magical actions were so ubiquitous that they were every bit as common and conventional as currently-conventional actions, would they still be magical in any way? Is there any fundamental difference between that which is currently perceived as unconventional and magical and that which is currently perceived as ubiquitous and conventional? Or is it arbitrary?
Can you conceive of currently-unconventional things being completely conventional? Can you conceive of currently-conventional things being completely unconventional? Can you actively experience either of them as such? Can you make a chair unconventional and magical? Can you make a dragon conventional?
Have you ever seen anyone perform, or performed yourself, an action (be that knowing, intending, or experiencing) which is utterly non-conventional? Was the non-conventional action perceived as something internal (e.g. a bizarre dream) or something external (e.g. something featured on /r/Glitch_in_the_Matrix)? Do the divisions of “inner” and “outer” experiences seem to have different definitions for what seems unconventional?
Where is the line that divides the inner and outer and why is it where it is? Can it be moved to facilitate unconventional actions?
Just some thoughts to grease those rusty gears. I welcome all discussion on any of the dozens of questions I posed.
“Assorted Contemplations”
Originally posted by u/Utthana on 2016-06-22 15:25:31 (4p92tw).
Even if it is idealistic and not physicalist in nature, that doesn’t instantly make it appear to us as full of magic. Why not?
I think stability. You accept a little staleness or mundanity for the security of not blowing your own lid off. I think its realizing that even if you do have infinite power, that you still have the behavioral patterns and thought patterns that are left over from your non-realized self. So its almost about keeping things in perspective.
Theres a growth model that “Outward Bound” uses which might be apt to what i’m saying here and it basically goes: Comfort, stretch, break. Really simple, but the idea is to stay in a stretched state most of the time, which i think should be the idea we have here. But again, remembering the conventional roots we came from, its like we’ve never really walked before. So now we can walk, but it will take time to run, jump, lift, etc. And even then, you’ll probably still enjoy sitting with your toys just fine right?
Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2016-06-30 14:45:46 (d4tlcbb)
I think stability. You accept a little staleness or mundanity for the security of not blowing your own lid off.
Perhaps, I wouldn’t disagree… but at the same time, really understanding an idealistic/magical perspective involves the ability to shift perspective to everything happens by magic. A good example would be the mortgage industry. Mortgage companies generally have a call center and sales floor that “produce.” However, a large handful of mortgage companies don’t make their money off originating loans. They tend to bring people in for a mortgage, then sell that mortgage based on the amount of money that the mortgage’s interest will accumulate over a period of time. Basically, they use magic in a sense to collect money that doesn’t have anything at the time backing it. We could all die tomorrow in a nuclear holocaust, but the mortgage company gets the money today… if that isn’t magic then I’m not sure what is, haha.
That’s quite an extended example though. Another is how objects hold form. To the materialist particles just have this mysterious strong and weak force that hold them together. Idealists don’t have to use such spooky terms because our worldview accounts for this. A subjects form is held together through intention as it arises in awareness. Or rather, Everything is magic, even though as you point out to our human subject this may not make things appear magical. Things have always appeared and appeared to happen the way they do, yet, once you realize you move said human through sheer intention, from the idealist perspective, even just moving your fingers and toes is magical.
it basically goes: Comfort, stretch, break. Really simple, but the idea is to stay in a stretched state most of the time, which i think should be the idea we have here.
First off, I’ve never looked into growth models of any sort. So is this a developmental growth model or a business growth model? (Not that it matters for the general idea, I’m just curious.) Second, is break in this sense referring to taking a break or stretching so far past the perceived limit that it would break… maybe the system?
So now we can walk, but it will take time to run, jump, lift, etc.
Only if you intend it to take time. Simply being able to imagine/comprehend the ideas of running, jumping, lifting, etc. from the idealists perspective should be enough for the magic to work, so to speak. Not that the initial comprehension will always be the most masterful usage of the extended capacities, but once a sort of experiential library is accessed through this comprehension/imaginative experiment, more complexity or fine tuning to fit a given context can then be imagined.
Originally commented by u/Scew on 2016-07-04 01:46:28 (d4xqm3v)
Things have always appeared and appeared to happen the way they do, yet, once you realize you move said human through sheer intention, from the idealist perspective, even just moving your fingers and toes is magical.
yeah i like to think of it as “imaginary” since to me that seems like more of a mental process and is more readily understood than magic. So all reality is imaginary, or as the obvious definition goes: a subjective mental construct. Didnt quite grasp the mortgage industry example tho.
So is this a developmental growth model or a business growth model?
Pretty sure its directed more towards personal development than business, tho i imagine it can be used for that too.
Second, is break in this sense referring to taking a break or stretching so far past the perceived limit that it would break… maybe the system?
Essentially yeah. Conventionally used, the model implies an individual taking on more than they can handle at their stretch, so that could an extra long to-do list, too high a course load in school, working out too often, etc. All of which lead to fatigue and the breaking down of the system, from which its required that you stay in the “comfort” zone until you recover, and start stretching again.
How that relates here, imo, is that if you’re pushing things all the time and seeing how far it goes, well… it goes all the way right? Very likely your subjectivity is not ready for all the way… so thats what i mean, the overself obvs has no issue, but your little dude may very well have an issue, so that something to recognize imo.
Only if you intend it to take time…
Thought this paragraph was really good. I personally have a hard time retaining the memories of weird things i’ve done, so developing that library has been an issue for me despite living in what i know is a mental landscape.
Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2016-07-04 02:03:31 (d4xr6vj)
yeah i like to think of it as “imaginary” since to me that seems like more of a mental process and is more readily understood than magic. So all reality is imaginary, or as the obvious definition goes: a subjective mental construct. Didnt quite grasp the mortgage industry example tho.
I also find the term imaginary allows ideas in this realm to slip into others minds with much less resistance than the term magic. Although, on a very basic level magic can be explained as slight-of-hand. A stage magician commands the audiences attention away from the real performance and the result is “as-if” he used some occult force. Politics works the same way, just on a grander scale.
Pretty sure its directed more towards personal development than business, tho i imagine it can be used for that too. Essentially yeah. Conventionally used, the model implies an individual taking on more than they can handle at their stretch, so that could an extra long to-do list, too high a course load in school, working out too often, etc. All of which lead to fatigue and the breaking down of the system, from which its required that you stay in the “comfort” zone until you recover, and start stretching again.
This took me awhile to integrate, and I went and researched growth models after reading this. I really like the idea of a growth model so I appreciate you bringing it into my awareness! :)
How that relates here, imo, is that if you’re pushing things all the time and seeing how far it goes, well… it goes all the way right? Very likely your subjectivity is not ready for all the way… so thats what i mean, the overself obvs has no issue, but your little dude may very well have an issue, so that something to recognize imo.
I’ve personally pushed my subjectivity passed breaking on multiple occasions thanks to the help of some modern science techniques meshed with South American spiritual rituals. I can definitely say my subjectivity wasn’t ready for it… On the upside, it led me to communities such as these that provide context for those experiences. Explaining the experience itself is arbitrary due to the nature of language, but having a way of explaining the mechanics is useful beyond belief.
Thought this paragraph was really good. I personally have a hard time retaining the memories of weird things i’ve done, so developing that library has been an issue for me despite living in what i know is a mental landscape.
Thanks! Some friendly advice to help with remembering weird things: At the time, a weird experience will seem foreign and probably make you uncomfortable, if only briefly. I’ve found that by letting that feeling flow and relating that feeling to the situation you provide a better context for the memory to form. That way, when you have a weird experience, upon reviewing your emotional/mental space and contemplating the reasoning behind those feelings you’re in a way indexing said experience. It’s way easier to navigate a library if there’s an index :3
Originally commented by u/Scew on 2016-07-21 07:29:11 (d5k45q3)