On the face of it subjective idealism appears to have frighteningly little content. To briefly summarize it, what does subjective idealism propose?

Firstly, all that can be known and experienced is a product of one’s own mind.

Secondly, one’s own mind cannot be understood in terms of one or any set of its products.

Thirdly, all the specifics of knowledge and experience are volitional or subjective. (Volitional and subjective are synonyms here. They mean the same thing.)

And that’s about it.

So isn’t this rather thin? This philosophy tells us nothing about the color of the sky, or whether or not there even is such a thing as the sky. It tells us nothing about the shape and the size of any body. It tells us nothing about whether or not music exists and which sort of music is best. It tells us nothing about space and time even! It tells us nothing about the number of sentient beings: is there just one or are there many? Although it does suggest there is at least one sentient being: the reader. It tells us nothing about how best to relate to experience, including when we experience ourselves to be in the presence of what we believe to be other sentient beings.

Even from the POV of aesthetics, subjective idealism is so abstract, that to find beauty in it requires a very particular sense of beauty tending toward maximum parsimony and simplicity. So there is a possibility of someone studying it for its aesthetic beauty, but I want contend it won’t be that for most people who might want to study it.

So what might the utility be?

Hypothetically a subjective idealist can hold any sort of axiomatic commitment(s). A subjective idealist can even hold a commitment to the axioms of physicalism. If so, what is the difference then between a subjective idealist holding a commitment to physicalism and a bona fide physicalist? The difference is that a bona fide physicalist doesn’t feel that the postulates of physicalism are a choice. A physicalist will feel as though the truth of physicalism somehow impresses itself upon the mind whether one likes it or not. So in other words, in the language of subjective idealism, a physicalist is someone who has othered or disowned one’s own commitment to physicalism and is no longer consciously aware of it.

And these sorts of othered commitments can be the strongest ones. These are the commitments that are tacit, unspoken, default, instintinctual. They’re unspoken because they’re so “obvious” that they don’t need to be mentioned. They’re so widely and pervasively assumed in the subjective sphere of one’s own mind that one needn’t discuss or think about them. And there is a lot of power in this. Allowing one’s own commitment to become tacit and implicit to the greatest possible degree makes the experiential consequences of that commitment very stable and densely apparent.

And now we can understand why someone might want to study subjective idealism.

Simply put contemplating subjective idealism returns a sense of personal conscious choice to one’s deepest core commitments. And this in turn opens up the possibility of making a change at the most profound level of one’s relationship to one’s sphere of experience.

This suggests a strong theme of discontentment at the deepest level of one’s phenomenal reality. Why would anyone even think about changing one’s fundamental axioms about phenomenal reality if the person considered them even remotely workable?

And it also suggests that one is considering alternative commitments. So if not physicalism, what then? I suggest that subjective idealism itself is too thin, too abstract, and so I don’t think it can replace physicalism by itself. Becoming consciously aware of one’s commitment to physicalism weakens that commitment, but if we’re not going to contemplate any alternatives, there is no point in weakening one’s perception of physicalism.

Another thing to consider is, do we want to jump to just one long-term alternative? Or do we want to develop a more complex system of relating to one’s experience through the lens of more than one commitment in parallel?

And if more than one, then how many? Two? Three? More?

There are so many possibilities here that I cannot even imagine them all. I just intuitively feel that the choice here is mindblowingly wide open. My own ready imagination is restricted by prior expectations. What I might be able to imagine tomorrow might be different from what I can imagine today. What one can imagine in principle is different from what can readily imagine right now.

One choice that’s obvious to me personally is going for subjective idealism plus a dual combination of physicalism and solipsism. So one way to exercise this is to relate to one’s experience as a physicalist during most typical activity, but to relate to one’s experience as a solipsist during a magickal ritual. There are many possibilities, and this is only one, just as an example. Another possibility is to relate to one’s experience as a physicalist when comfortable, but in times of crisis relate to one’s experience as a solipsist. An obligatory car metaphor is that you use cruise control when the driving is safe, but take manual control of the car when it’s potentially dangerous. So this presupposes being able to shift one’s manner of relating when necessary, and this implies that one has to be aware that even such fundamental and axiomatic commitments as physicalism are voluntary, and this is exactly what studying subjective idealism can accomplish.

Other slightly less obvious possibilities can include: living with the ability to switch on demand between animism and solipsism. Jumping to full-time animism, where subjective idealism is only a realtively brief transitional period necessary to accomplish the jump. One can even live with the ability to switch between physicalism, animism and solipsism. Or one can live with the ability to switch between animism and physicalism under the framework of subjective idealism.

So it seems to me that if one wants to be able to switch rapidly between two or more sets of fundamental axioms regarding how to relate to one’s experience, then subjective idealism is helpful on a long term basis.

And if one wants to just switch from physicalism to animism, then subjective idealism can be helpful as a transitioning phase, after which one can become a bona fide animist.

Another possible reason to study subjective idealism is to gain the ability to update significant details in your otherwise favorite system of core belief. So with the aid of subjective idealism one could shift one’s commitment from physicalism A to physicalism B. As an example, maybe in physicalism A faster than light travel is impossible, and in physicalism B it is possible.

There is another powerful reason to never become bona fide anything other than a subjective idealist. And that is, you may realize that no set of axioms about how to best relate to your subjective experience is going to be desirable forever. Since you anticipate the need to switch at some point when you grow tired of a certain way of life, you may want to keep yourself ready for such change by having never allowed yourself to get to the point where some core metaphysical commitments have become instinctive and unconscious. That way if you realize you may want to live 30 human lifetimes as an animist, you could do that, and then on your 30th lifetime you could switch to say physicalism without any particulalry arduous spiritual effort, provided you kept yourself a subjective idealist with a commitment to animism and never became a bona fide animist.

  • @syncretik
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    2 years ago

    “Why might anyone want to study subjective idealism?”

    Originally posted by u/mindseal on 2016-05-04 19:02:18 (4htnys).

  • @syncretikOPM
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    12 years ago

    It’s interesting that you chose those three(Physicalism, Animism, S. Idealism) as switching points, because that does seem to be my current modus operandi.

    Physicalism is the choice while I’m typing this to you. At the moment I’m quite engaged in the idea of being a dude typing to another dude on the Internet with the goal of relating and having something (ANYTHING, please just ANYTHING!!) to say. Afterwards, when I’m around bickering family members I’ll switch to a more Subjective Idealist mindset because it makes the option of engaging or disengaging with them very obvious and simple. I can watch them represent themselves and discuss their viewpoints, all desperately trying to be humans with each other, while I’m simply enjoying myself as a 3rd party observer. It’s more like watching a particularly contrived movie from this mindset. Of course I love my family, but certain conversations are just too contrived.

    Subjective Idealism is a good place to be in during physical danger as well. Re-label the danger as neutral or even a big positive and suddenly you’re out of danger. Then you can drop back into a sort of physicalism, safe and sound. If you’re in the process of losing your house, re-label the experience as A Brave New Adventure and BAM everything is great! This is what I was talking about when I mentioned stepping out into a 3D world and coming back into the 2D world at your own discretion.

    Later when I’m on a walk in nature I switch to animism. When I’m alone, animism is very appealing because I become aware that I am not actually alone. I am surrounded by the essence of self, and that’s great. I can have conversations with my surroundings with the full understanding that it hears me in its own way.

    Are there any other systems you have experimented with switching to in this manner?

    Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2016-05-17 04:05:34 (d37qyce)

    • @syncretikOPM
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      12 years ago

      Subjective Idealism is a good place to be in during physical danger as well. Re-label the danger as neutral or even a big positive and suddenly you’re out of danger. Then you can drop back into a sort of physicalism, safe and sound. If you’re in the process of losing your house, re-label the experience as A Brave New Adventure and BAM everything is great! This is what I was talking about when I mentioned stepping out into a 3D world and coming back into the 2D world at your own discretion.

      I agree. I think a lot of people actually do this on an instinct during times of perceived great danger. There is a secret subjective idealist lurking below the surface in quite a few people the way I see it.

      I can have conversations with my surroundings with the full understanding that it hears me in its own way.

      Exactly. :) If you’re talking to your surroundings and especially if they talk back to you, that’s animism.

      In case someone here doesn’t know, animism is a worldview that says even a forest or an ocean can have subjective inner being and you can talk to them in a meaningful way. So as an animist you can ask the forest to help you hunt, for example. Or you can ask the sky to rain. Or you can ask the wind about the location of something and then listen for how the wind will answer. That’s animism in action. To an animist the wind is not an inanimate force. An animist can also talk to plants and plants will talk back to them. From a physicalist perspective all that is sheer insanity. Whereas some olde tyme shaman will just go “Yea, if I want to know whether the plant is edible or not, I just ask it, and they also tell me what sorts of diseases they’re good at healing.”

      Personally I have very limited contact with animism. I’ve never been able to talk to a plant and I haven’t really wanted to either. But I do think the idea is interesting and worth keeping somewhere in my mind. Animism is very rare in the world as I know it. I think all the different ways of relating to one’s experience are at least nominally interesting.

      Are there any other systems you have experimented with switching to in this manner?

      Not that I know of, so the answer is either “no” or “if it happened it must have been unconscious.”

      I’m mostly interested in subjective idealism, solipsism and physicalism. I play with the idea of talking to various deities sometimes. So for example, I think about Odin or Freya sometimes. I don’t get all that involved in such thinking. I’m not sure what to call this kind of belief structure where you believe there are invisible forces at play. Maybe spiritism? Generally I don’t dive too deeply into it because I don’t like being at the mercy of the various unconscious forces. But I do think it can be interesting. Particularly if I could establish a really reliable base of understanding and experience, maybe I could then deliberately expose myself to some more destabilizing forces just for fun, but that’s not anything that I plan to do in the near future.

      Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2016-05-17 06:48:45 (d37y4ks)

      • @syncretikOPM
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        12 years ago

        That idea of conscious spiritism is interesting. :) I did it unconsciously when I was younger. I was religious and also believed in spirits so it just felt like the default. I remember looking into the dark and trying to see the monsters and demons. I’ve tried it recently and ended up undergoing accidental demonic possession. They came out of the dark and entered me. It was wonderful. They were very caring and heart-driven demons.

        So I’ve used spiritism in that manner recreationaly a handful of times.

        Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2016-05-17 06:57:53 (d37yiwt)

        • @syncretikOPM
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          12 years ago

          That’s interesting. And kudos to you on not being afraid. I’ve had a number of experiences where it felt like I was being manipulated by some unseen forces and generally I’ve been terrified. Like one time I was pulled through a wall into different dimension of sorts. One of the scariest times of me life. Haha.

          Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2016-05-17 07:08:02 (d37yy7r)

          • @syncretikOPM
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            12 years ago

            Thanks. There’s a reason I wasn’t afraid. I was having an awful, self-loathing day, and I had spent the latter half of it putting myself in every uncomfortable situation I could out of disdain for my self. I was feeling self-conscious so I forced myself to look people in the eye and wave and smile at them and talk to them. I was feeling lethargic so I force myself to walk for 4 hours at night. I was thirsty so I didn’t buy a drink when I was out and about.

            That’s all seriously useful for breaking through. Fuck our insecurities and uncomfort. Eat it up!

            Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2016-05-17 07:14:46 (d37z8c1)

            • @syncretikOPM
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              12 years ago

              Ah, I do some of what you talk about here some of the time.

              But! I am hip to the danger of such thinking too. I refuse to fall into unconscious provism, be it proving something to others or to myself.

              Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2016-05-17 07:20:58 (d37zhm4)

              • @syncretikOPM
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                12 years ago

                Thanks. That’s a fantastic message.

                Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2016-05-17 11:17:17 (d388pxb)