A 10-year-old boy was shot dead in front of his Omaha, Nebraska, home on Thursday night—allegedly by his own father.
“But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did"
Really. Are we relieving shooters of the burden of making sure of what they’re shooting at or do we just give people a pass?
Forget making sure, even if it WERE a car prowler, that’s still not a justified use of force.
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/stand-your-ground-in-nebraska
“Nebraska does not have a stand your ground law. State law explicitly imposes a duty to retreat before resorting to deadly force outside the home.2”
https://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1409
“The use of deadly force is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself or herself against death or serious bodily harm unless the actor knows that he or she can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating. Newton v. Huffman, 10 Neb. App. 390, 632 N.W.2d 344 (2001).”
Thanks.
I really don’t like the trend in some states that people seem to be able to kill over theft, or even arguing over a parking space. It’s nuts how little life is worth.
I work in 911 dispatch, so I often get to spend a large portion of my night listening to the absolute dumbest reasons imaginable that people get into fights, and an amazing of them could be avoided by someone just walking the fuck away or closing a door.
A couple of highlights
I get a call from a very angry person. They wanted to park in a space that someone else was parked in. Other party was sitting in their car. This wasn’t reserved or permit parking or a private lot or anything of the sort, just public street parking in a fairly busy downtown area, and I don’t think it was even time restricted or metered or anything like that. Caller had asked them (and from their tone with me, I suspect they didn’t ask politely) to move so they could park there. Person sitting in the car told them to say please. They get into a bit of a shouting match, and I end up having to send a cop out to get 2 grown ass adults to say “please and thank you” to each other and explain what street parking is. I’m tempted to side with the person in the parked car because the caller was an asshole to me, but the truth is they both suck, either one of them could have just driven away at any time and not had to make it anyone else’s problem.
Another one was a domestic. We got calls from both parties, my caller was inside the house, their ex was outside, and they were arguing through the open door. I get all the info I need, told them to close the door and stop arguing with their ex and just wait inside until the cops got there, and went on to answer my next call. Couple minutes later I see that we now have EMS going to the house. Apparently at some point after I ended my call, they opened the door to continue arguing and got pepper sprayed. Wouldn’t have happened if they just kept the damn door closed like I told them to.
Another time my caller had just gotten off of a bus and was following a group of teenagers who had threatened him with a knife on the bus. I told him to stop following them because they have a fucking knife. This bonehead tells me it’s ok because he has a knife too. Motherfucker, I don’t want any of you idiots getting stabbed. They’re walking away, let them walk away. If you have the option to not get into a knife fight, take that option. Especially don’t get into a knife fight with a bunch of teenagers.
Those are probably the most obviously insane ones, but I’m pretty hard-pressed to think of more than a handful of disturbances or domestics I’ve had where both parties were totally unable to separate from each other. Close your door, go to your separate rooms, roll up your windows, just fucking leave and go for a walk or a drive, whatever it takes, just stop escalating the situation.
There are some times where standing your ground can be justified, but I think there’s far more cases where people should have a duty to retreat instead.
I am in my apartment and hearing banging and yelling. Come out and my neighbor is in the hallway. Banging on his door demanding his gf let him in. Shows me his watch and said they had an argument and she smashed it. We talk for a bit and I suggest he spend the night with a relative even offering to drive him. He doesn’t want to, wants to continue to bang on the door and resume the fight. I get frustrated and tell him (this is as best as I can remember it) “you are a 19 year old black kid having a domestic with like 40 people who can hear you. How do you think this is going to go for you when someone gets angry enough to call 9-1-1? And lord fucking help you if one of those drug sniffing dogs barks one time. Now do you want to continue in this hallway until that happens or do you want to chill with me until your grandmother picks you up?”
What is wrong with people? Take a walk and calm down before it gets out of hand.
Then they don’t understand why whatever happened to them when they couldn’t leave the situation. Being right (in their mind) is more important than being alive, I guess.
“ABLE” and “ALLOWED” are two different things. ;)
Anyone armed has the ability… they’re just going to get charged in most cases.
Lots of good that distinction does the dead person.
“But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did"
The kid was coming right at him! /s
How could he be justified in doing what he did (which is shooting his child), he’s not a police officer. Usually only rhey get away with stuff like this.
At this point in time, it doesn’t appear that he was justified in firing.”
Maybe put the rest of the quote in there. And are you really mad at the police for doing their job of investigating what happened and following the principal of “Not Guilty Until Proven Guilty”.
That doesn’t change the point of my opinion. Put the rest of it in there seeing as you prefer more information - the part where he shot a 10 year old. So he didn’t verify what or who he was shooting, and yet we have a public statement that that even considers it could have been justified? I’m all for presumed innocence, but when you whip out deadly force you’d better be damned sure what you’re planning on killing and the consequences for doing so, and I have little tolerance for failure to do so.
/jordanlund has offered legal standards that would seem to make the shoot unjustifiable regardless of presumed innocence.
E: words
If there are 6 year olds shooting their teachers in cold blood then you bet your ass I’m firing on a 10 year old if they even look at me funn
Y’all pretty stupid, it’s funny
TF is wrong with you? What’s that got to do with anything here.
Pretty sure you’re replying to an attempt at black humour.
Do you think about shooting children a lot?
Given family holidays can be very stressful and violent in bad families, I have to wonder if that poor kid said something dad didn’t like, or cried, or whined, or otherwise was a completely normal kid and the dad lost his shit and shot him for it. Then came up with “I thought I saw a thief!” to get away with it.
Like, everyone in this thread is assuming the dad actually heard a thief. But I think that should be questioned, too. It’s so common for bad families to slap kids around during thanksgiving. My uncle once lost his shit over something stupid and threw his half-paralyzed mom (she’d had a stroke not too long before) out of her chair onto the floor.
There just aren’t enough details to say right now. What you’re saying is possible definitely but it’s impossible to be sure if anything other than a child was killed. Anger is the worst human emotion in my opinion. Seneca calls it a form of temporary madness.
Agreed. I have an anger problem and I hate it. I can remain calm if I’m prepared for it, but if something takes me off gaurd (or I reach peek frustration) I react before I have time to think.
It’s super annoying, often embarrassing, and the worst of me. It’s like things start happening and my hire-order thinking is just straight-up offline until I’ve said something horrible, stormed off, or thrown something like a toddler. It’s like I have to struggle to catch up to what my body is doing
The only blessing is that I’m physically weak as shit, (and I married a strong man who is chill/non-reactive)
I wish I could rewire my instinct to fight out of me, but meditation makes me fall asleep
I can sympathize. Here’s a video that I found useful. I work on this daily. Some days I excel and other days I fall short. I think of myself as a rage addict and when I fall off the wagon. I try to reflect, not get angry with myself (because that’s just feeding the addiction), and get back on track. It’s a constant struggle.
any kind of neurodivergent diagnosis? Anger issues happen to most of us I’m afraid.
ADHD- combined tyoe
Very nice. I disagree. If you aren’t angry you aren’t paying attention. World is going to shit by just about every measure you care to name.
I try to not get angry because I don’t think it solves anything and while there are a lot of things wrong with the world there are good trends. Global rates of extreme poverty were close to 70% in the early 80s and are now below 47% and continuing down. source. Global birth rates have been steadily declining source, which is a factor in global poverty as well as reducing world hunger (this trended down for years but recently he has unfortunately increased). Global education has improved now only 1 in five adults have never received any education source. Anger didn’t improve any of these situations. Ask a professional or amateur fighter (I’ve personally talked with boxers about this) going into a fight angry almost guarantees you’ll lose.
Is rent and housing prices higher in the developing world this year compared to last year? Answer the question or don’t bother responding
So your only definition of the “world going to shit” is housing prices? I clearly said that there are a lot of problems in the world.
Housing is a serious issue and while nationally prices probably won’t be going significantly down there are some places where the price has gone down. Not enough to be sure unfortunately.
How does getting angry solve that problem? How does getting angry solve any problem? If getting angry doesn’t solve the problem what might?
Neoliberal can’t answer a fucking question
Housing is a serious issue and while nationally prices probably won’t be going significantly down there are some places where the price has gone down. Not enough to be sure unfortunately.
I’m not an economist. I’m not sure about world prices. I answered the question the best I can with the knowledge I have.
One definition of neoliberslism is: A political ideology or ideological trend based on neoclassical economics that espouses economic liberalism, favouring trade liberalisation, financial deregulation, a small government, privatisation and liberalisation of government businesses, passive antitrust enforcement, accepting greater economic inequality and disfavouring unionisation.
I don’t support any of that.
Even if it was a thief ending a life is not a proportional response.
Every gun owner thinks they’re a responsible gun owner.
“The boy’s 47-year-old father, Will McDonald, faces a charge of criminal homicide and possession of a firearm by a prohibited person, according to police.”
Doesn’t look like he’s even supposed to be a gun owner.
It doesn’t matter, the pro-gun community will hook them up with either private sales that don’t require a background check or an infinite supply of poorly secured firearms.
After all, executing your family shouldn’t just be for legal gun owners.
Too bad it’s only for something as arbitrary as a criminal record, and not for something certain like the inherent frailty and instability of all humankind.
And, statistically, they are correct.
I’m anti lax US gun laws btw. But the amount of gun owners to gun deaths/incidents still demonstrates that most are ‘responsible’ owners. Even if I still think far far far too many needless gun incidents happen, it’s not the majority or even vaguely close.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of irresponsible acts do not result in natural consequences out of sheer luck. Like most accidental discharges while cleaning don’t hit another person. Most unsecured firearms don’t result in kids accidentally killing one another.
The level of negligent behavior is much higher than homicide stats would have you believe.
Totally. But is anyone honestly suggesting that over 50% of all owners have had an accidental discharge?
Statistics also say that the self-defense argument is largely bullshit: you’re more likely to harm those closest to you than to defend yourself with a firearm
Yes, I fully agree. It’s well supported with data. As is my statement.
I’m honestly confused how people took my comment to be pro gun at all. I just don’t like misrepresenting data.
A few bad apples spoils the bunch. Y’all ruined it for yourselves.
And, statistically, they are correct.
And 100% of the ones who are wrong own guns.
I’m not sure I understand. Are you trying to say that 100% of irresponsible gun owners are also gun owners? Well, yeah… that’s definitely correct.
Or am I missing something?
Or am I missing something?
The bit about what happens when people who believe themselves to be responsible are wrong.
If you’re just going to defend mass gun ownership at me, waste someone else’s time.
I’m not defending mass gun ownership at all and was completely clear about that in the initial comment. And I certainly am aware that all people who end up accidentally shooting themselves did not plan to do so… and I never suggested otherwise.
Most drivers are responsible drivers.
And the majority of nuclear bomb owning nations are the same. Only one country has used them in wartime. 77 years of responsible nuke ownership. That doesn’t mean I want more nations to have them.
Yes, you are essentially repeating what I said.
He said investigators were still working to “figure out” if McDonald may have mistaken his own son for a car thief. Douglas County Attorney Don Kleine said formal charges could be filed as soon as Sunday.
“It’s obviously very tragic,” Kleine said. “But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did. . . . At this point in time, it doesn’t appear that he was justified in firing.”
Is this real? Did I just eat the onion?
This is America
Smell that freedom, baby.
Don’t want to be a parent anymore? Just pretend you thought your kid was breaking into the house or something absurd like that, and it’ll be a-okay. Just an accident.
Stand Your Ground Or I Will Turn This Car Around
More guns than brains.
Sad for the kid and his family.
Yes, This is America
That’s important to figure out because it impacts the kind of charges they are going to press. There are different degrees of murder.
If the guy planned on killing his son, that’s first degree murder. If he mistook the kid for a car thief that’s second degree murder or depending on the exact circumstances maybe just manslaughter. And even with manslaughter the exact circumstances change it between voluntary and involuntary.
So let’s not get our pitchforks out for the police doing their work right (for once).
So why does a potential car thief even be shot. Maybe let the police and later a judge handle thieves and not take justice into your own hands.
What if that car thief suddenly charges you after you hear the alarm and go outside to check on it.
I can see a situation where the kid was trying to scare his father as a prank. And unfortunately the father mistook it for a real threat.
I assume the person who shot the kid claims he felt threatened. It’s probably not enough and even the police said so, but they still have a duty to look into it.
The police jumping to conclusions is a big issue in the US, so let’s not criticize them when they follow proper protocol. In every civilized country in the world the police would investigate exactly what happened.
Maybe the person giving the interview/report should have used better words. But what’s going to happen would still be the same.
that’s a stupid and highly unrealistic car thief.
Maybe space aliens will come.
I find your deference to extrajudicial killing disturbing.
Sounds like a traditional american holiday to me.
You should NEVER use a firearm on ANYTHING you cannot identify. If you can’t identify it then you shouldn’t be willing to destroy it, especially when no threat exists yet.
This man is a fucking coward and a danger to all around him. Put him in fucking prison and toss the key.
Positive identification on your target and what’s behind your target.
Every time.
But I don’t trust the general public to positively identify a fucking stop sign, let alone a target of a gun.
Agreed. Would love to see stricter control over who is able to drive.
And would also love to see gun ownership in the USA at least start to catch up slightly to vehicle use regulations when it comes to things like licensing and registration.
And insurance.
Not required knowledge to buy a gun.
Holy fuck. This is peak 'Merica.
Don’t call out or anything, Hoss. Just blindly fire at noises and shit.
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You’re right! More guns would not only solve this issue, but every other issue! Guns for everyone! *minorities not included
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Should be given at birth, along with their social security.
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possession of a firearm by a prohibited person
So he wasn’t allowed to own a firearm?
Dumbfuckistan
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Firing at a thief sounds weird. You have a party, a bunch of people with you. You can scare them off.
“A burglar! Hold on, let me get my gun.” “Bill, we can all just yell ‘get the fuck out’ at the same time, they’ll probably shit their pants and run.”
Have you ever stolen something? I doubt so (:
A bunch of dudes do make you very uncomfy. Not only they see and remember you, they can run and block you from leaving the scene. They can beat you up. They can hold you before cops would show.
Rule one of stealing is leaving as soon as you are noticed, stakes become too high. Even the dumbest of street theives won’t fuck around if you scream aloud about their attempt and have some people to back you up.
It’s the price of freedom…
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