Yeah. All the fighting I do with tankies and their useful idiots doesn’t compare to the nightmare that would be wading into a right-dominated community. In left-communities that aren’t run by ban-happy tankies, propaganda has a harder time taking hold, because there’s nothing leftists love more than fighting other leftists; and in a fight, all other things being equal, reality advantages the side championing it.
Please avoid the r-term, I understand as someone who grew up online in the 2000s that it’s a habit that takes time to break, but not using it provides relief to many who are sensitive to its use due to its derogatory history.
They haven’t been duped. At least not in the same way. Russia has no real influence over them. It’s an enemy of my enemy thing. The United States has been trending heavily undemocratic for the last 50+ years minimum. And they don’t want that to change. Their complaint is that they aren’t the ones in charge. They DON’T want to make things better. They just want to be the ones hurting those that disagree. And the only way they can do that is to make things worse. To the point of collapse.
It’s just goals aligning. Not some big conspiracy. Or brainwashing. Republicans, Russians, Chinese, and ML all see themselves benefiting from collapse.
The United States has been trending heavily undemocratic for the last 50+ years minimum.
See, I can’t agree with this. Fifty years ago, our democracy was still in a MUCH worse position than today.
Our current democratic decline dates to the Citizens United decision. Not that we were perfect before that, or even necessarily ‘good’, but in general, the US has gotten more democratic since 1974, not less. Even despite Reagan.
See, I can’t agree with this. Fifty years ago, our democracy was still in a MUCH worse position than today.
How so? Union membership was at all time highs, we’d just had FDR’s new deal. Labor and non ownership classes have never benefited from government in a similar fashion since that time.
That isn’t to discount the civil rights act etc. More people being represented is good. The problem being, that while more people were “technically” represented. Everyone collectively has less to show for it. With inequality approaching or exceeding even the guilded age. Because the government increasingly represents only a single class of person.
How so? Union membership was at all time highs, we’d just had FDR’s new deal. Labor and non ownership classes have never benefited from government in a similar fashion since that time.
In the 1970s?
That isn’t to discount the civil rights act etc. More people being represented is good. The problem being, that while more people were “technically” represented. Everyone collectively has less to show for it. With inequality approaching or exceeding even the guilded age. Because the government increasingly represents only a single class of person.
I feel like ‘technically’ is doing a lot of fucking lifting here.
What about the '70s? The 70s itself isn’t very descriptive. On the whole being inexorably tied to Nixon really pushes home the point that things were becoming less democratic then. It’s also the time period in which the modern techniques of gerrymandering were being developed and explored. As a direct response to civil rights. Again less democratic.
And technically is an accurate term. What is democracy? Is democracy just being able to cast a ballot, that then gets creatively discarded. Or is something beyond casting a ballot required. Remember, Russia is technically a democracy too. As was the Soviet Union. I would argue that the US has had a better record on that front domestically. But it’s a low bar. Not necessarily something we should be bragging about. Are we really a democracy? We should be. But are we actually.
Removed by mod
Yup, we’re just as susceptible to propaganda. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
That said, I do feel there are more diverse voices on the left that call out the bullshit.
Totally agree. We’re way better at criticizing our chosen leaders.
Yeah. All the fighting I do with tankies and their useful idiots doesn’t compare to the nightmare that would be wading into a right-dominated community. In left-communities that aren’t run by ban-happy tankies, propaganda has a harder time taking hold, because there’s nothing leftists love more than fighting other leftists; and in a fight, all other things being equal, reality advantages the side championing it.
Please avoid the r-term, I understand as someone who grew up online in the 2000s that it’s a habit that takes time to break, but not using it provides relief to many who are sensitive to its use due to its derogatory history.
They haven’t been duped. At least not in the same way. Russia has no real influence over them. It’s an enemy of my enemy thing. The United States has been trending heavily undemocratic for the last 50+ years minimum. And they don’t want that to change. Their complaint is that they aren’t the ones in charge. They DON’T want to make things better. They just want to be the ones hurting those that disagree. And the only way they can do that is to make things worse. To the point of collapse.
It’s just goals aligning. Not some big conspiracy. Or brainwashing. Republicans, Russians, Chinese, and ML all see themselves benefiting from collapse.
See, I can’t agree with this. Fifty years ago, our democracy was still in a MUCH worse position than today.
Our current democratic decline dates to the Citizens United decision. Not that we were perfect before that, or even necessarily ‘good’, but in general, the US has gotten more democratic since 1974, not less. Even despite Reagan.
How so? Union membership was at all time highs, we’d just had FDR’s new deal. Labor and non ownership classes have never benefited from government in a similar fashion since that time.
That isn’t to discount the civil rights act etc. More people being represented is good. The problem being, that while more people were “technically” represented. Everyone collectively has less to show for it. With inequality approaching or exceeding even the guilded age. Because the government increasingly represents only a single class of person.
In the 1970s?
I feel like ‘technically’ is doing a lot of fucking lifting here.
What about the '70s? The 70s itself isn’t very descriptive. On the whole being inexorably tied to Nixon really pushes home the point that things were becoming less democratic then. It’s also the time period in which the modern techniques of gerrymandering were being developed and explored. As a direct response to civil rights. Again less democratic.
And technically is an accurate term. What is democracy? Is democracy just being able to cast a ballot, that then gets creatively discarded. Or is something beyond casting a ballot required. Remember, Russia is technically a democracy too. As was the Soviet Union. I would argue that the US has had a better record on that front domestically. But it’s a low bar. Not necessarily something we should be bragging about. Are we really a democracy? We should be. But are we actually.
I agree. I get serious “I’m 14, don’t understand, but still very edgy” vibes.