No one is saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic or Jewish. The point is that when Elon says “you have said the actual truth” to someone who claims Jews are oppressing white people, he isn’t thinking of Beta Israel or Yemenite Jews. He isn’t even thinking of Sephardic Jews. He is thinking of Ashkenazi Jews, who are white. He just doesn’t understand that. He very likely doesn’t even know non-white Jews exist… but the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we’re talking about.
the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we’re talking about.
Yeah I agree. But those people would be white regardless of if they were Jewish. Whiteness as a social construct is determined by skin color or national origin or both. Religion doesn’t have anything to do with it, although clearly through history it has - which catholics have also dealt with to some extent, especially in the WASP areas of the southern US.
But those people would be white regardless of if they were Jewish.
Except we aren’t. Many other white people don’t consider me white. I know that for a fact from personal experience. It doesn’t matter that I am genetically European and my skin is light.
And it is not just religion. I’m an atheist. That wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference to the SS or any of the people chanting, “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville or Elon “you have said the actual truth” Musk. I am a Jew regardless and, thus, not white.
By the way, this is also true of Roma people. They are (or can be anyway) in almost every way visually indistinguishable from the rest of the European population. It doesn’t matter, they’re not white anyway.
Yeah we’re saying the same thing. I recognize that there is a long history of denying Whiteness to people who have white skin. As I said, Irish, Italian, Slavic, and other catholic/orthodox peoples have been denied Whiteness at various points in history, in the US and elsewhere, in addition to people who are Jewish or Roma.
My point though is clearly the typical Irish person is white even if they are not seen as “White.” The typical Bosniak is white, even if they are not seen as “White.” And yes, clearly the typical Jewish person is white, even if they have not historically been seen as “White.” But that’s because really only White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are reliably considered to be White in the United States - which is a 3-part conjunctive test, of which people who are Jewish only satisfy, at most, the first two parts.
The point is that Whiteness doesn’t even objectively exist, and is a socially constructed tool used to maintain the historical/current superstructure of Anglo Bourgeois hegemony in the West. So we should reject the classification of anyone as White rather than merely try to expand its definition to include historically oppressed peoples with white skin
Nevertheless, my point originally was that you don’t need white skin to be Jewish. And because there are Ethiopian and Polish and Arab jews, it seems difficult to believe that there could be a Jewish ethnicity like the Zionists claim. And it seems that claiming that Jews are a distinct ethnic group is itself highly othering - and that othering is the intentional goal not only of White supremacist bigots, but also, for different reasons, is the goal of Zionist ethnostates such as Israel
No one is saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic or Jewish. The point is that when Elon says “you have said the actual truth” to someone who claims Jews are oppressing white people, he isn’t thinking of Beta Israel or Yemenite Jews. He isn’t even thinking of Sephardic Jews. He is thinking of Ashkenazi Jews, who are white. He just doesn’t understand that. He very likely doesn’t even know non-white Jews exist… but the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we’re talking about.
Yeah I agree. But those people would be white regardless of if they were Jewish. Whiteness as a social construct is determined by skin color or national origin or both. Religion doesn’t have anything to do with it, although clearly through history it has - which catholics have also dealt with to some extent, especially in the WASP areas of the southern US.
Except we aren’t. Many other white people don’t consider me white. I know that for a fact from personal experience. It doesn’t matter that I am genetically European and my skin is light.
And it is not just religion. I’m an atheist. That wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference to the SS or any of the people chanting, “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville or Elon “you have said the actual truth” Musk. I am a Jew regardless and, thus, not white.
By the way, this is also true of Roma people. They are (or can be anyway) in almost every way visually indistinguishable from the rest of the European population. It doesn’t matter, they’re not white anyway.
Yeah we’re saying the same thing. I recognize that there is a long history of denying Whiteness to people who have white skin. As I said, Irish, Italian, Slavic, and other catholic/orthodox peoples have been denied Whiteness at various points in history, in the US and elsewhere, in addition to people who are Jewish or Roma.
My point though is clearly the typical Irish person is white even if they are not seen as “White.” The typical Bosniak is white, even if they are not seen as “White.” And yes, clearly the typical Jewish person is white, even if they have not historically been seen as “White.” But that’s because really only White Anglo-Saxon Protestants are reliably considered to be White in the United States - which is a 3-part conjunctive test, of which people who are Jewish only satisfy, at most, the first two parts.
The point is that Whiteness doesn’t even objectively exist, and is a socially constructed tool used to maintain the historical/current superstructure of Anglo Bourgeois hegemony in the West. So we should reject the classification of anyone as White rather than merely try to expand its definition to include historically oppressed peoples with white skin
Nevertheless, my point originally was that you don’t need white skin to be Jewish. And because there are Ethiopian and Polish and Arab jews, it seems difficult to believe that there could be a Jewish ethnicity like the Zionists claim. And it seems that claiming that Jews are a distinct ethnic group is itself highly othering - and that othering is the intentional goal not only of White supremacist bigots, but also, for different reasons, is the goal of Zionist ethnostates such as Israel