Trump in 2016:
She shouldn’t be allowed to run.
If she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.
In that situation we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.
It would grind the government to a halt.
Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/donald-trump-trial-guilty-hillary-clinton-b2556563.html
I think it should definitely be pointed out, constantly, how much of a hypocrite and liar Trump is, just to get it (and keep it) on the record. Ignoring it would only normalize it more. And maybe some fence sitters didn’t know about it and now they do. Which is a good thing.
At the same time, however, I also believe it’s absolutely pointless, if your goal is to convince any of his followers. They already know all of this and they don’t care. They don’t love him despite the lies and hypocrisy. They love him because of it. And even if they don’t like it per se, they still won’t turn against him, because they’re accepting way worse and nothing has been a deal breaker so far.
Edit: I have often wondered what Trump would have to do for his followers to abandon him. Is there anything they wouldn’t accept?
Find them and ask them.
Discussing on forums like these is all find and good, but in the end it’s lots of Preaching To The Choir. What people need to do is find a Red Hatter and ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
Outreach will win the day.
You have apparently had much more productive conversations with trumpers than I ever have.
And, it’s not hard to predict their answers.
That’s pretty close to the list for anyone who is flying a Trump flag. And if it’s not on their list, it’s still not a dealkiller.
You’d need to put me in kevlar and pay me a lot to go knocking on maga doors all day.
Edit: (I promise I know who Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman were, I just flipped the name by accident in my haste!) https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rosa-parks-race-removed-florida-textbook/
I love “Harriet Tubman on a bus,” that’s exactly what they would teach in a DeSantized history class.
Also, just for completeness, this was a specific reference too: 🙂
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-florida-standards-teach-black-people-benefited-slavery-taught-usef-rcna95418
LOL while you are correct, I’m ashamed to say that was a mistake on my part, I just typed the wrong name.
I was referring to their attempt to whitewash what happened with Rosa Parks.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/22/us/florida-textbook-race-rosa-parks-reaj/index.html
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rosa-parks-race-removed-florida-textbook/
Well, I get what you’re saying, but I’m European and while there are plenty of right-wingers here, I haven’t met any actual obvious Trumpers so far, though I’m sure plenty of them do like Trump.
Was just kinda wondering ‘out loud’ if there is an actual line somewhere and what it would be. It seems to me it’s much easier for democrats to turn against their politicians than it is for republicans.
I’m Canadian, but I can still tell you why Democrats are more likely to turn against their own politicians.
People who vote Democrat tend to be more educated, and academics tend to lean left. The left-leaning academics are far more left leaning than the Democratic party and are aware that, while the Democrats are the lesser of two evils, they still stand to uphold the status quo for the ruling class, whereas the Republicans have devolved into explicit fascism.
Because the Republicans have fallen into fascism, the people who vote Republican are either undereducated and fall for the propaganda or they’re part of the ruling class and want more money.
I hadn’t really thought about the link to education much. I kind of figured that democrats just have more… deal breakers than republicans, mostly due to empathy (which… I don’t think it’s linked to education?). If you don’t like hurting people, if you care about other people (and not just the ones you know), then there will obviously be a lot of things you won’t accept.
But caring about the truth and reality and science is important, so I guess you do have a point.
Regarding your edit (i. e., what would it take for Trump followers to change their mind), go hit YouTube with a search for “Jordan Klepper fingers the pulse” and watch some of those. A more recent one, in which he speaks to Niki Haley supporters, demonstrates what are likely “more reasonable” Republicans regarding Trump, and probably best answers your question. Most feature him speaking to Trump supporters at Trump rallies. One features him talking to supporters during (yes, you read that correctly) the January 6 insurrection. Watching these will help understand the entrenched mindset. Hilarious and horrifying.
The mental exercise is… what would Biden have to do to get you to vote for the Republican Party? Or even to get you to just not vote at all? I know it’s a false equivalency, but it gives you some sense of the lines we all draw in the sand, and the “activation energy” that it takes to change our minds.
He could be as overtly criminal as Donald, taking money from Russia and the Saudis in exchange for top secret documents and lists of CIA agents, and I’d still be voting as long as he doesn’t also do an insurrection. FPTP and having all Repubs back a criminal as their preferred leader has really backed me into a corner.
IDK that the mental exercise is helpful in 2024. If the point is to say that they feel the same about Biden, that’s because they have been brainwashed by far-right propaganda. The activation energy it takes to sway them is cult deprogramming.
Overtly criminal or overtly fascist?
I could back a criminal if I found the reason to be morally sound. Let’s not forget that some crimes, morally speaking, were the right thing to do (think hiding jews during the holocaust as an extreme example, and maybe possession of certain drugs as an example of something morally ambiguous that wouldn’t keep me from voting for a good candidate)
Using campaign money to pay hush money? That’s just in line with the shit Donny already does; it’s dishonest as all hell and definitely not morally sound. He’s also clearly a fascist.
Actively supporting a genocide with billions of USD in goods seems like a great reason to not vote for Biden anymore
okay, that’s the first half… so since you’re going to not vote because of gaza, it stands to reason that it’s possible that someone would choose not to vote for Trump if he said he wasn’t going to let Israel ethnically-cleanse gaza. It’s all about putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. Thanks for participating!
I’m not even a US citizen but ok
ah. So the true answer to what would it take for me to not vote for Biden was “nothing.” I guess the question for you is, what would it take to get you to cast a valid vote for a US democrat president and why aren’t you doing it?
For me yeah. I’m just saying I sympathise with all those who think Biden crossed their “activation energy” line by supporting Israel’s genocide for this long.
A good track record. I’d want to vote for Bernie if I could, after hearing the fire in his voice and knowing he means it.
I would say strategic voting for biden at this point to prevent Donny from winning is a fine reason to vote Biden right now.
Let’s not forget that their system is broken and unless you vote one of those two parties, your vote doesn’t matter, and Donny wants your vote to matter even less. Even just to attempt to uphold political democracy it’s worth voting Biden, but that’s what he’s riding on and that’s a fucking shame.
By all means, if the alternative wasn’t thrusting the US into fascism, I would absolutely say don’t vote for the person supporting genocide, alas that is not the case.