So I work in industrial automation, and live in a high cost of living part of Canada.
Back around 2017 or so, companies said we were in a labor shortage. I sold a few robots to factories that couldn’t keep people in a few of their jobs (I’m thinking of two different small factories). These are tasks that are so boring that people lose their minds. The factories would hire someone and they’d quit after a week.
When the cost of continuously hiring new people became apparent, they bought robots.
I guarantee that there was some wage that would’ve kept those employees on the job. It might have been unpalatably high for the people in charge, but it certainly existed.
I’m not sure it’s that simple. I think if you offered someone 150k to do the job, they’d do it for long enough to build some savings then quit and live off of that while they found something more fulfilling to do.
I think that really the only way to keep people in that job is for them to have terrible alternatives.
The job was to put a small piece of metal into a machine (brake press), push a button, and take the now slightly bent piece of metal out of the machine.
The metal is part of a hinge for something like a knee brace. The factory makes a bunch of metal components for different things but didn’t make the whole knee brace.
I guess the company could try to get a higher price for the part, or just say they don’t want that contract… but people need knee braces. So yeah, I don’t feel bad about selling them a robot. Some jobs are just better done by machines. The issue is wealth concentration.
Maybe a worker’s council could have found a way to make the job less bad.
Wanting to automate something because it’s better/cheaper is very different from falsely claiming that there’s a “labor shortage” because they allegedly can’t find anybody to do the job, though. There’s no need for them to be fucking self-servingly dishonest about it.
while just looking at the scenario itself, that’s all pretty fair. but the company’s efforts to commoditize its labor directly brought that boring job into existence.
Sectorial and regional labor shortages are real. In a population the size of the US, national labor shortages don’t— it’s just wages below what the labor market determines appropriate.
all that those hoops means is that the lag to fill them is a year or two. which sounds like a long time but there’s always another graduating class coming along, if the employers are willing to pay competitive wages.
In most cases this will be easily solved by on-the-job training, but with doctors there is also the added problem of a bureaucracy that has acted deliberately to restrict the supply of doctors, so as to protect the wages and prestige of that profession. That’s not to say that these problems don’t exist, but describing them as labor shortages that can be solved simply by importing more bodies is misleading.
On the job training doesn’t solve this at all. These are jobs that take significant theoretical and practical training. You can take any idiot and give them some CS classes and boom, software engineer. Nursing, MRI Technicians, CPAs, etc. need actual education and training.
I don’t agree. There are tons of people in Florida who would be capable and willing to do manual labor, provides the wages and working conditions were better than alternatives. The ag economy depends on migrant workers because they are more desperate and therefore easier to exploit, which is more profitable.
Also, the orange shortage specifically is more driven by a deadly disease introduced by global trade than any labor shortage.
Meanwhile labor shortages.
Do labor shortages even exist? Usually when I hear this claim with respect to the US economy it’s complete bullshit.
No, there is no such thing as a labor shortage. There is only employers’ unwillingness to pay market wages.
So I work in industrial automation, and live in a high cost of living part of Canada.
Back around 2017 or so, companies said we were in a labor shortage. I sold a few robots to factories that couldn’t keep people in a few of their jobs (I’m thinking of two different small factories). These are tasks that are so boring that people lose their minds. The factories would hire someone and they’d quit after a week.
When the cost of continuously hiring new people became apparent, they bought robots.
I guarantee that there was some wage that would’ve kept those employees on the job. It might have been unpalatably high for the people in charge, but it certainly existed.
Personally I’d rather see those jobs done by robots. No one wants that job, let the robot do it.
I’m not sure it’s that simple. I think if you offered someone 150k to do the job, they’d do it for long enough to build some savings then quit and live off of that while they found something more fulfilling to do.
I think that really the only way to keep people in that job is for them to have terrible alternatives.
The job was to put a small piece of metal into a machine (brake press), push a button, and take the now slightly bent piece of metal out of the machine.
The metal is part of a hinge for something like a knee brace. The factory makes a bunch of metal components for different things but didn’t make the whole knee brace.
I guess the company could try to get a higher price for the part, or just say they don’t want that contract… but people need knee braces. So yeah, I don’t feel bad about selling them a robot. Some jobs are just better done by machines. The issue is wealth concentration.
Maybe a worker’s council could have found a way to make the job less bad.
Wanting to automate something because it’s better/cheaper is very different from falsely claiming that there’s a “labor shortage” because they allegedly can’t find anybody to do the job, though. There’s no need for them to be fucking self-servingly dishonest about it.
Interesting but anecdotal and not necessarily representative of the bigger picture.
Totally.
while just looking at the scenario itself, that’s all pretty fair. but the company’s efforts to commoditize its labor directly brought that boring job into existence.
cheaper to pay for maintenance than living wages or god forbid, pensions.
A shortage of people willing to work 60 hours a week to still not afford a place to live and food to eat.
Sectorial and regional labor shortages are real. In a population the size of the US, national labor shortages don’t— it’s just wages below what the labor market determines appropriate.
For example? I don’t know of a single so-called labor shortage that wouldn’t be solved by higher wages or better working conditions.
Anything that requires licensure and/or certification, it’s common in medicine and the skilled trades for this reason.
all that those hoops means is that the lag to fill them is a year or two. which sounds like a long time but there’s always another graduating class coming along, if the employers are willing to pay competitive wages.
And that’s a big fucking goddamn IF.
In most cases this will be easily solved by on-the-job training, but with doctors there is also the added problem of a bureaucracy that has acted deliberately to restrict the supply of doctors, so as to protect the wages and prestige of that profession. That’s not to say that these problems don’t exist, but describing them as labor shortages that can be solved simply by importing more bodies is misleading.
On the job training doesn’t solve this at all. These are jobs that take significant theoretical and practical training. You can take any idiot and give them some CS classes and boom, software engineer. Nursing, MRI Technicians, CPAs, etc. need actual education and training.
And would be short-term only, with proper pay
Yes, in certain industries, namely manual labor. There’s currently an orange shortage because Florida ran out so many migrant workers.
That’s not a labor shortage, though. Big Ag is just too stingy to pay enough for non-migrants to want to do it.
I don’t agree. There are tons of people in Florida who would be capable and willing to do manual labor, provides the wages and working conditions were better than alternatives. The ag economy depends on migrant workers because they are more desperate and therefore easier to exploit, which is more profitable.
Also, the orange shortage specifically is more driven by a deadly disease introduced by global trade than any labor shortage.