- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
The new standards are part of a broad push to get more Americans into electric vehicles, and reduce the environmental cost of driving.
The new standards are part of a broad push to get more Americans into electric vehicles, and reduce the environmental cost of driving.
Supposedly they want us all in EVs, but American manufacturers aren’t producing shit except for Tesla which are safety hazards, and they effectively banned Chinese competition that could have actually accomplished it. US car manufacturers will likely ignore these new standards by pushing more “light trucks” that are exempt.
Light trucks aren’t exempt, but have a different standard. The article posted lacks a lot of detail. First off, 50 mpg is just the expected average given the mix of “light trucks” and cars. The actual standards are 65 mpg for cars and 45 mpg for “light trucks.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/07/climate/biden-mileage-electric-vehicles.html
So actually the light truck standard isn’t far off of the 50 mpg figure this article inexplicably comes up with even though that’s not the standard for either cars or light trucks under the new rules.
Heavy trucks and vans also are included in the policy with a greater percent increase than for cars and light trucks (though beginning from a lower floor).
Aptera, baybeeee.
Also, ev prices are way down and their efficiency is going to keep going up.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/18/ev-prices-down-18-last-year-drastic-price-cuts/
Prices for cars in general was at an all time high. Don’t piss on my shoe and tell me it’s raining. They’re still way overpriced.
You said the prices were too high, here is proof that the prices are coming down, almost 20% in a year.
You said American manufacturers aren’t making cheaper EVs, this article talks about cheaper American EVs.
You cried that American EV manufacturers are going to try to trick their way around regulations, while apterra is making 400 to 1,000 mile range EVS with solar charging 40 mi a day, a very clear example of auto innovation.
Don’t throw a tantrum because your complaints were so flimsy.
20% down after increasing overall for the last decade is not proof. You sound like some marketing manager telling me how the price of cereal has dropped by 20% afte you rose the price for the last 5 years by 300%…
No where did I say that …
Yeah didn’t say that either…and aptera is a tiny company that doesn’t even have a final release on the car from their website… it’s probably going to be vaporware just like most of these EVs that sport massive mileage claims.
Lol yeah I’m the one throwing the tantrum…you EV militants are hilarious.
It’s very clear you find hard evidence hilarious.
'Vaporware".
Don’t use words you don’t know the meaning of because you’re embarrassed of being proved wrong.
Lol ok kid, please show me this ev that’s in production and has been tested
That’s what the entire article i provided is about. Don’t blame other people because you never learned how to read.
You didn’t provide an article on the magical ev you keep yapping on about. And as I said before you provided an article on how prices have dropped even though the last 5 years was just constantly raised prices. I’m not the child simping for a ev maker that has no products on the market or any real world data.
Just an honest quick question. Do you hate on EV’s because fox “news” tells you to?
I don’t hate on EVs, I think they’re great. The applications they have are for city drivers not for rural and long haul people or even people who live in apartments. They’re getting there but right now isnt the time to try and push everyone to EVs forcefully.
Fair, I do think however, more people could use them but are falling for the propaganda. Apartment living could be an issue, especially if you can’t charge it at your workplace. Almost anyone with a house though, could get one and likely benefit from it.
O absolutely, and I’m sure they’ll continue to get better, but telling people who can’t afford them or can’t use them because of the lack of infrastructure where they live doesn’t help drive the conversation in any meaningful way. Which unfortunately you can see from some of the replies towards me have been.
GM has the Bolt, and now the Silverado, Ford has the MachE and the Lightning, Dodge is catching up, mostly with Jeep of all brands.
The Jeep wrangler PHEV is the top selling hybrid. The bolt and MachE are pretty great and can be found on the used market with decent miles for an affordable amount. The Lightning is a fantastic truck, better in almost every way that matters than the cyber truck. The Silverado EV is just launching but seems very capable.
Ford is the number 2 EV seller behind Tesla. If you think American manufacturer aren’t producing shit, you’re just not looking.
The only EV I can find from an American brand that is in any way appealing is the Bolt. Everything else is a giant truck or SUV, and to be honest I don’t feel safe driving such a huge piece of metal, and I don’t have the money to justify buying one. No American options are affordable or reasonably sized. The US is doing EVs in possibly the most unsustainable way possible.
The MachE is the same size as the bolt and it’s rather affordable on the used market. It doesn’t feel like an SUV to drive and barely looks like one. If you don’t like the look, then you don’t like the look, but that doesn’t mean that American manufacturers “aren’t producing shit” it’s that they aren’t producing anything that fits your aesthetic. They will, because they will have to if they want to keep selling cars in California. Just going to take time to get more styles out there.
The MachE is nearly a third larger than the bolt by weight, an already large car, as well as being larger than the bolt in every physical dimension, even if not by much (except for length, where there’s a nearly 2 foot difference). I just want a small compact car with enough range to get me to work and back and run a few errands. In 2000 most cars were reasonable sizes even in the US, but today you can find anything reasonably sized new. I don’t want an SUV or a “crossover”. In other coutures like China these vehicles are being built, but US politicians would rather protect the profits of car companies producing these massive, inefficient, unsustainable monster trucks for people to take to the office and back.
Look at the Hyundais, ~300 mile range, 15 min battery charge, and they have a sedan and a cuv wagon thing. They are also some of the cheapest leases you can get, and dealers are overflowing with them. It’s basically the EV wishlist, but for some reason I don’t see many on the road.
Could you be more specific? I couldn’t find a single EV under $30k the cheapest one I could find on their website was $37.5k on their website. That’s not affordable, and 10k above where the bolt starts.
They are expensive to buy outright, but that’s arguably a bad idea anyway due to the depreciation. They are leasing Ioniq 5 and 6 for less than $250/month and $200/month: https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/offers
It’s cheaper than most of the gas cars in terms of cost to own over the period. If you want to buy. The Kona electric is $32,xxx
I’m not the kind of person that wants a new car always. I’d rather have a car that will last me 20 years. With that in mind, leasing is almost always much more expensive.
I’m not the kind of person who wants a new car always either. I have a 15 year old Acura with 200k on it. At $300/month, I no longer have gas or maintenance expenses, and I don’t have to pump gas any more. Figuring in the cost savings, I figure I’m driving a $50k car around for around $100 month. Idk what will happen in 2027 when I give this thing back to them, but it definitely would have cost me more than $3600 in repairs over three years with a 200k mile Acura.
For American manufacturers, Chevy has the Bolt (next year), the Blazer, and the Equinox. Ford has the Mustang Mach E. Lucid has the Air and the Gravity.
The Apterra will also be available soon and that thing gets like 600 mile range. It’s only a two seater though.
This isn’t aimed at just American manufacturers (Tesla, GM, Ford) but all vehicles sold in the US. People always seem to resort to “American protectionism” and other falsehoods when discussing stuff like this or the proposed ban on Chinese EVs, but either miss or purposely ignore the rest of the market in the US. Nearly every company that sells here has at least one EV and many others have excellent fleet MPG like Toyota with all their hybrid options.
Sure, but with almost no exceptions, the popular cars with the worst mileage are American ones.
Most other rich countries have much more ambitious plans that include phasing out fossil fuel only cars COMPLETELY, and are able to do so because their politicians don’t have to kowtow to the intertwined interests of their owner donors from Big Oil and Detroit.
Because it’s NOT a falsehood. See above.
People just don’t like them 🤷♂️
Most of the folks who want an EV and who can live with an EV already have one. It’s not the politicians preventing people from buying.
None of that is true.
No, they’re just enabling the people who are making it less viable in exchange for bribes.
Until range and recharge time can complete with ICE vehicles, EVs will continue to be viable basically in the cities only. The USA is massive.
Define competitive https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-07/long-range-evs-now-cost-less-than-the-average-us-new-car
300 mile range is now long range? Lol the fuck are you smoking.
You didn’t read the article or even the sub title. 300 miles is the minimum thresold in terms of specification of cars that they are using for comparison in terms of economics. Almost all of the compared vehicles are in the mid 300 mile range. Average ICE is about 400 mile range.
There are also more expensive consumer EVs that are in the high 400/500 mile range but that’s not the focus of the article.
Okay, EV sales are hitting a plateau just as they become competitive and viable with ICE, because people love them. Whatever you say.
I’m gonna need a source on that. That sounds extremely unlikely.
The technology has been competitive for a decade or more. There’s just more availability and better prices to fill an extremely underserved demand.
When most people didn’t know that Teslas have the build quality of a 1980s Yugo, their only big problems were that they were too expensive and that they couldn’t keep up with demand.
Those are still the main issues with EVs but as more automakers have joined the field, both problems are rapidly diminishing at the same time as people become increasingly aware of the fact that our survival as a species depends more than anything else on divesting from fossil fuels as quickly as possible.
I’m a car guy, and I’d like to have one. I’m waiting for someone to make one fast and affordable like a tesla only not a tesla because elon is a d-bag. If he gets kicked out of the company, I’ll buy one the next day.
What fast and affordable levels are you looking for? I assume we’re talking Tesla dual motor fast and a budget of 55k? What’s wrong with the ionic?
You can get used dual motor 3’s for around 15k where I’m at. The tesla is a second quicker in 0 to 60 and the quarter mile, which is a lot faster.
Teslas are perfectly safe. Stop making excuses lol.
Are they though?
– Possibly the least offensive thing in this article: https://www.thenation.com/article/society/tesla-racism-sexual-harassment/
Does that sound like a vehicle that is “perfectly safe” to you? A vehicle built by people who have to learn on the job?
Jesus dude, nobody is talking about the factory and what you linked has zero effect on the vehicle safety. This is some desperate whatsboutism lolol.
The factory where they build the cars. Yes. Where they build them without being trained. And that has zero effect on safety? How can you claim that?
And yes, the rest of the article is not relevant, which is why I quoted the relevant part.
Also, I’m not sure you understand what ‘whataboutism’ is if you think it’s “showing evidence for your claim.”
I hate Tesla as much or more than the haters because musk is fucking pile of shit, but their cars are better than most of the shit put out by american vehicle manufacturers. They’re still some of the safest vehicles you can buy. I hate misinformation more than I hate Tesla.
American vendors aren’t producing more EVs because EVs don’t have mass appeal. See the currently tanking EV market and crashing prices on these vehicles. The market clearly cannot bear mass adoption of EVs at this time because the buyers for all those EVs we were making don’t exist.
Why? A mix of reasons. Poor infrastructure. Range anxiety in a car-centric nation. Total incompatibility with some lifestyles like apartment living at a place without a charger.
Half of all EVs cost >$54,000. Give us the $10,000 Chinese ones and they’ll sell like hotcakes.
When there’s that big of a difference in price, people can afford to put in chargers or take extra steps to make it work.
You’ve got that backwards: there’s less people buying American EVs than there should because there aren’t enough and cheap enough options from American companies.
Just about every other car maker on the planet has several popular EVs on offer, though, so they’re shooting themselves in the foot long term to avoid the expense of pivoting short term.
Again, you’re wrong. I suspect you’re taking the bad build quality of Teslas specifically beginning to hurt their sales as a sign that all EVs are unviable. That’s not reality.
Again, other way around: people WANT EVs, but American companies are hardly making any good ones available. Almost all other car makers are, though, at increasingly competitive prices too.