“Gatekeeping: the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something.”
The lack of difficulty sliders make the game inaccessible to people who have no ability or desire for the unforgiving experience, nor any ability/desire to “Git Gud Scrubs”. It’s intentionally left out to exclude those people. That makes it “gatekeeping” by the definition for the word.
This is substantiated by the fact that a mode to make the game easier and a mode to make the game harder are in the top 10 downloaded mods for Elden Ring. If you leave out the loaders and modutils, those same mods are top-5. This is basically unheard of in most games.
You can argue that you approve of this gatekeeping, but it’s silly to die on the “it’s not really gatekeeping” hill.
Soooo a game, which is not paid for nor developed by the community, and is rather purchased with the knowledge that it is a difficult game which will require ample skill to surpass its many challenges, should put in difficulty sliders despite them fundamentally going against the very nature of the game itself?
Soooo a game, which is not paid for nor developed by the community, and is rather purchased with the knowledge that it is a difficult game which will require ample skill to surpass its many challenges, should put in difficulty sliders despite them fundamentally going against the very nature of the game itself?
Fucking YES it should. I didn’t buy ER until I was 100% certain it had an easymode mod. So I got what I wanted out of it despite them shoving both their middles fingers at me and telling me I’m not worthy to buy their product because they’re intentionally hiding the good part (the story) behind gameplay I didn’t want. I’m still pissed that I wasted my money buying Bloodborne. You want me to get over that, cut me a check.
As I said to the other hater, what is with the ER-fanboys turning the chat into full-on-reddit level bitchfest defending it? Why don’t you just let me have my valid opinions? I know, heaven forbid there exists someone who has an opinion that doesn’t match yours.
If you don’t like spicy food. Don’t buy spicy food. They’re not gatekeeping food from you. You have other options.
If you don’t want to “git gud”. You can use summoned spirits. NPCs, other players. There already is a difficulty slider. It’s one you set for yourself.
You always have the option to come back when you’re stronger. The boss is not going anywhere.
If you don’t like spicy food. Don’t buy spicy food
I don’t know about you, but every spicy restaurant I know has a little “difficulty slider” where you get to ask them not to pour a gallon of ghost pepper into it. It’s about making the customer happy.
If you don’t want to “git gud”. You can use summoned spirits. NPCs, other players
Or I can fucking mod the piece of shit and complain about it on forums because it’s fucking stupid. But I want BURN Bloodborne because I can’t mod it.
There already is a difficulty slider. It’s one you set for yourself.
Yeah. I’m getting really good at archery. Think I’ll cut my eye out. Natural difficulty slider
Why is it every time I express a valid criticism about an otherwise story-heavy game with a stupid difficulty-related gimmic the cringe-posse comes out and tries to convince me the game is perfect and no human being would find my opinion valid. Like seriously what I tell my little nieces and nephews, if you don’t have anything nice to say, move along.
In other news, I DO respect the Viva La Dirt League reference.
You can summon spirit ashes. You can level your character to become stronger. You can summon NPCs and player for boss fights.
I don’t like those options. So I don’t do that. I make it harder on myself, by forgoing those options, I want the challenge of doing it alone.
But if YOU want to make it easier, and slide the difficulty down. And summon ashes or npcs or other players, You can do that. You have that option.
You bought a game that you knew would be full of “difficult” bosses, from a company that has never had an official “difficulty slider” on any of their games in this genre. And now you sit and complain about there not being an official “difficulty slider”.
Do you also go to a vegan restaurant and complain they’re not inclusive because you can’t order meat?
You bought a game that you knew would be full of “difficult” bosses
I bought a game that I knew had a working Easy Mode mod. I would not have bought it if it hadn’t. Because the designers are assholes, but assholes who can write a decent story.
And now you sit and complain about there not being an official “difficulty slider”.
Yes, I do. And you sit and complain about another human being having an opinion despite the fact you could just NOT complain about other human beings having an opinion. Funny how people “sit and” do things.
Do you also go to a vegan restaurant and complain they’re not inclusive because you can’t order meat?
No, but that’s not an apple-to-apple comparison, making that a False Analogy fallacy. For two reasons. First, whether I agree with it or not, veganism is an ethical position and they’re refusing to serve any meat on the menu because they think it’s morally wrong to. Do you think Fromsoft thinks they’re “going to hell” if they put in a difficulty slider? Second, vegan restaurants are ABOUT veganism. There’s no reason to choose to eat at a vegan restaurant unless you or someone in your party is looking to have a meal without meat in it for some reason. There’s plenty of reasons to play Fromsoft games but at lower difficulty. Most people don’t like Bloodborne or Elden Ring “because it’s difficult/unforgiving”. They like it because of the story. Anyone who would opt out of playing those games because someone else could play them on easier has serious issues.
It is a great apple to apple comparison. What you did was walk in, get upset that the vegan restaurant only served vegan food. So you came back with your own home-cooked meal to sit down and eat.
The reason you don’t like it is because it highlights just how ridiculous you are in your complaint.
They made a piece of art. You chose to buy it knowing what it was. Git gud
This is the “nuh uh” answer. You never quantified anything. it’s sorta a “fuck you, I know you showed my argument was a fallacy, but I’m better than you so I’m doubling down”. I spend too much time in places where that shit gets laughed at. I’m going back to those places. Enjoy your shit game.
They made a piece of art. You chose to buy it knowing what it was. Git gud
No. I chose to buy Bloodborne because people convinced me that wasn’t the case. Git blocked.
Learning to play the guitar or code also doesn’t have a difficulty slider, but people of all abled-ness manage it anyways. It’s a matter of patience and practice just like any other skill.
But this particular skill has in-game mechanics like leveling up, upgrading equipment, and summoning up to two whole extra players to do the work for you. Then there’s mods…
Learning to play the guitar or code also doesn’t have a difficulty slider, but people of all abled-ness manage it anyways.
Games are about entertainment. They’re not a career. Nobody is paying me to play a Fromsoft game. More importantly, nobody is gatekeeping the entertainment, immersion, and story of music or coding behind me being able to “Git Gud”.
And let’s look at music and coding. Since I can speak a bit to both. For music, OF COURSE there are difficulty sliders. When I took recorder back in school, they had 2 different versions of many songs. When I first learned Christmas music on piano, I learned special “simplified” tracks for the songs. I never “Got Gud” at music, but I still got to the end of the book.
And coding. Coding is the opposite of a Fromsoft game. You’re surrounded by mountains of tools that try to make it easier. When I bring in a junior developer, I’m not giving them some unforgiving code challenge to power through. Maybe they’ll never be good enough to design a specialized cache or optimize queries. So I give them the things they CAN do, and hold their hand so they always succeed. Junior devs don’t ever fail, not because they “git gud” but because I set them up to succeed by this little difficulty slider called “how hard is this ticket to do and how much help do they need from me?”
And let’s look at music and coding. Since I can speak a bit to both. For music, OF COURSE there are difficulty sliders. When I took recorder back in school, they had 2 different versions of many songs. When I first learned Christmas music on piano, I learned special “simplified” tracks for the songs. I never “Got Gud” at music, but I still got to the end of the book.
Some songs have an easier version and a harder version, but being able to play a Christmas song on a piano doesn’t mean you can demand to be able to play Korsakovs Flight of the bumblebee on a piano. You just can’t play it, you have to “git gud” to play that song. And games are like songs. Some songs are easier, some song are harder. Some harder songs can be made easier, some can’t without losing an important part of the song.
And coding. Coding is the opposite of a Fromsoft game. You’re surrounded by mountains of tools that try to make it easier. When I bring in a junior developer, I’m not giving them some unforgiving code challenge to power through. Maybe they’ll never be good enough to design a specialized cache or optimize queries. So I give them the things they CAN do, and hold their hand so they always succeed. Junior devs don’t ever fail, not because they “git gud” but because I set them up to succeed by this little difficulty slider called “how hard is this ticket to do and how much help do they need from me?”
I feel like that analogy brings in an entirely different concept, the concept of a sherpa. You’re sherpaing junior developers by giving them easier problems and giving them tips on harder problems. But a Junior dev won’t magically know how to build a 3D engine or a compiler or something for an embedded system (just to give a few random examples). They still need to “git gud” to become a senior developer and be able to do those things. In fact I’d argue that software development as a profession is one of the closest professions to Fromsoft games, because you always need to learn new concepts or tools or ways to do things. Software development always challenges you the same way Fromsoft games challenge you. You can’t just take a problem and be “could I get the easy mode version of this problem”. And much like you sherpa junior developers so they could get better, some people sherpa others through Fromsoft games so those people could get better. Maybe instead of demanding an easy mode for your problems you find a sherpa who helps you get over them.
Games are about entertainment. They’re not a career.
They’re all skills that you have to develop, and things people do because they like doing them. And if you’re not willing to learn to develop those skills, you won’t be able to participate.
Zelda games aren’t gatekeeping me when I die a lot and they don’t give me more health. Portal 2 isn’t gatekeeping me when I can’t solve the puzzles and they won’t give me the answers. Undertale isn’t gatekeeping me because I’m bad at bullet hells and they won’t slow down time for me. The whole point of the game is to develop a skill and overcome a challenge.
I already named several mechanics Elden Ring gives you to deal with the difficulty, and engaging with them is what the game is about. It can be as easy or as hard as you make it. If you choose not to utilize those options, that’s your prerogative.
“Gatekeeping: the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something.”
The lack of difficulty sliders make the game inaccessible to people who have no ability or desire for the unforgiving experience, nor any ability/desire to “Git Gud Scrubs”. It’s intentionally left out to exclude those people. That makes it “gatekeeping” by the definition for the word.
This is substantiated by the fact that a mode to make the game easier and a mode to make the game harder are in the top 10 downloaded mods for Elden Ring. If you leave out the loaders and modutils, those same mods are top-5. This is basically unheard of in most games.
You can argue that you approve of this gatekeeping, but it’s silly to die on the “it’s not really gatekeeping” hill.
Soooo a game, which is not paid for nor developed by the community, and is rather purchased with the knowledge that it is a difficult game which will require ample skill to surpass its many challenges, should put in difficulty sliders despite them fundamentally going against the very nature of the game itself?
Fucking YES it should. I didn’t buy ER until I was 100% certain it had an easymode mod. So I got what I wanted out of it despite them shoving both their middles fingers at me and telling me I’m not worthy to buy their product because they’re intentionally hiding the good part (the story) behind gameplay I didn’t want. I’m still pissed that I wasted my money buying Bloodborne. You want me to get over that, cut me a check.
As I said to the other hater, what is with the ER-fanboys turning the chat into full-on-reddit level bitchfest defending it? Why don’t you just let me have my valid opinions? I know, heaven forbid there exists someone who has an opinion that doesn’t match yours.
If you don’t like spicy food. Don’t buy spicy food. They’re not gatekeeping food from you. You have other options.
If you don’t want to “git gud”. You can use summoned spirits. NPCs, other players. There already is a difficulty slider. It’s one you set for yourself.
You always have the option to come back when you’re stronger. The boss is not going anywhere.
Spicy food does have a difficulty slider. It’s pretty difficult to find a curry in Australia that’s not so full of cream it’s basically a fruit salad.
And so does Elden Ring. Your inability to find it is not unlike you inability to find a spicy curry.
I found it. It’s in Nexusmods instead of in the game.
I don’t know about you, but every spicy restaurant I know has a little “difficulty slider” where you get to ask them not to pour a gallon of ghost pepper into it. It’s about making the customer happy.
Or I can fucking mod the piece of shit and complain about it on forums because it’s fucking stupid. But I want BURN Bloodborne because I can’t mod it.
Yeah. I’m getting really good at archery. Think I’ll cut my eye out. Natural difficulty slider
Why is it every time I express a valid criticism about an otherwise story-heavy game with a stupid difficulty-related gimmic the cringe-posse comes out and tries to convince me the game is perfect and no human being would find my opinion valid. Like seriously what I tell my little nieces and nephews, if you don’t have anything nice to say, move along.
In other news, I DO respect the Viva La Dirt League reference.
You have so many options to make it easier.
You can summon spirit ashes. You can level your character to become stronger. You can summon NPCs and player for boss fights.
I don’t like those options. So I don’t do that. I make it harder on myself, by forgoing those options, I want the challenge of doing it alone.
But if YOU want to make it easier, and slide the difficulty down. And summon ashes or npcs or other players, You can do that. You have that option.
You bought a game that you knew would be full of “difficult” bosses, from a company that has never had an official “difficulty slider” on any of their games in this genre. And now you sit and complain about there not being an official “difficulty slider”.
Do you also go to a vegan restaurant and complain they’re not inclusive because you can’t order meat?
Like the third-party Easy Mode mod.
I bought a game that I knew had a working Easy Mode mod. I would not have bought it if it hadn’t. Because the designers are assholes, but assholes who can write a decent story.
Yes, I do. And you sit and complain about another human being having an opinion despite the fact you could just NOT complain about other human beings having an opinion. Funny how people “sit and” do things.
No, but that’s not an apple-to-apple comparison, making that a False Analogy fallacy. For two reasons. First, whether I agree with it or not, veganism is an ethical position and they’re refusing to serve any meat on the menu because they think it’s morally wrong to. Do you think Fromsoft thinks they’re “going to hell” if they put in a difficulty slider? Second, vegan restaurants are ABOUT veganism. There’s no reason to choose to eat at a vegan restaurant unless you or someone in your party is looking to have a meal without meat in it for some reason. There’s plenty of reasons to play Fromsoft games but at lower difficulty. Most people don’t like Bloodborne or Elden Ring “because it’s difficult/unforgiving”. They like it because of the story. Anyone who would opt out of playing those games because someone else could play them on easier has serious issues.
It is a great apple to apple comparison. What you did was walk in, get upset that the vegan restaurant only served vegan food. So you came back with your own home-cooked meal to sit down and eat.
The reason you don’t like it is because it highlights just how ridiculous you are in your complaint.
They made a piece of art. You chose to buy it knowing what it was. Git gud
This is the “nuh uh” answer. You never quantified anything. it’s sorta a “fuck you, I know you showed my argument was a fallacy, but I’m better than you so I’m doubling down”. I spend too much time in places where that shit gets laughed at. I’m going back to those places. Enjoy your shit game.
No. I chose to buy Bloodborne because people convinced me that wasn’t the case. Git blocked.
You really are something else. I strongly disagree that you showed my argument was faulty.
We both know the conversation is about Elden Ring and not Bloodborne. But I suppose you have nothing better to respond with.
Learning to play the guitar or code also doesn’t have a difficulty slider, but people of all abled-ness manage it anyways. It’s a matter of patience and practice just like any other skill.
But this particular skill has in-game mechanics like leveling up, upgrading equipment, and summoning up to two whole extra players to do the work for you. Then there’s mods…
Games are about entertainment. They’re not a career. Nobody is paying me to play a Fromsoft game. More importantly, nobody is gatekeeping the entertainment, immersion, and story of music or coding behind me being able to “Git Gud”.
And let’s look at music and coding. Since I can speak a bit to both. For music, OF COURSE there are difficulty sliders. When I took recorder back in school, they had 2 different versions of many songs. When I first learned Christmas music on piano, I learned special “simplified” tracks for the songs. I never “Got Gud” at music, but I still got to the end of the book.
And coding. Coding is the opposite of a Fromsoft game. You’re surrounded by mountains of tools that try to make it easier. When I bring in a junior developer, I’m not giving them some unforgiving code challenge to power through. Maybe they’ll never be good enough to design a specialized cache or optimize queries. So I give them the things they CAN do, and hold their hand so they always succeed. Junior devs don’t ever fail, not because they “git gud” but because I set them up to succeed by this little difficulty slider called “how hard is this ticket to do and how much help do they need from me?”
Some songs have an easier version and a harder version, but being able to play a Christmas song on a piano doesn’t mean you can demand to be able to play Korsakovs Flight of the bumblebee on a piano. You just can’t play it, you have to “git gud” to play that song. And games are like songs. Some songs are easier, some song are harder. Some harder songs can be made easier, some can’t without losing an important part of the song.
I feel like that analogy brings in an entirely different concept, the concept of a sherpa. You’re sherpaing junior developers by giving them easier problems and giving them tips on harder problems. But a Junior dev won’t magically know how to build a 3D engine or a compiler or something for an embedded system (just to give a few random examples). They still need to “git gud” to become a senior developer and be able to do those things. In fact I’d argue that software development as a profession is one of the closest professions to Fromsoft games, because you always need to learn new concepts or tools or ways to do things. Software development always challenges you the same way Fromsoft games challenge you. You can’t just take a problem and be “could I get the easy mode version of this problem”. And much like you sherpa junior developers so they could get better, some people sherpa others through Fromsoft games so those people could get better. Maybe instead of demanding an easy mode for your problems you find a sherpa who helps you get over them.
They’re all skills that you have to develop, and things people do because they like doing them. And if you’re not willing to learn to develop those skills, you won’t be able to participate.
Zelda games aren’t gatekeeping me when I die a lot and they don’t give me more health. Portal 2 isn’t gatekeeping me when I can’t solve the puzzles and they won’t give me the answers. Undertale isn’t gatekeeping me because I’m bad at bullet hells and they won’t slow down time for me. The whole point of the game is to develop a skill and overcome a challenge.
I already named several mechanics Elden Ring gives you to deal with the difficulty, and engaging with them is what the game is about. It can be as easy or as hard as you make it. If you choose not to utilize those options, that’s your prerogative.