The US and its allies have sabotaged peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on multiple occasions. European politicians have been talking about putting EU troops on Ukrainian soil in support roles so that more Ukrainian men can charge directly into Russian artillery fire for the past few months. In the months leading up to the invasion, the western media apparatus was braying for Russian blood with a fervor that I hadn’t seen since the runup to the Iraq War - and for ten years now the US has been directly backing anti-Russian elements inside Ukraine, regardless of the fact that many of those elements were literally fascists, leading directly to the Maidan coup and the ethnic schism in Ukrainian society that resulted in the civil war.
I’m not arguing that it hasn’t been a proxy war. Of course, NATO doesn’t want a global superpower to take over another country. It sets a precedence. Just like they(we) wouldn’t want China to freely take over Taiwan.
Sabatoged peace talks? All the peace talks included Russia taking over at least some of Ukraine’s land. At which point, they slowly move their borders, encapsulating Ukraine piece by piece, year by year. Submitting to “Peace Talks” in which Russia is able to take some kind of Ukrainian land is submission to Russia.
Ukraine didn’t invade Russia. Russia should have simply never invaded Ukraine. Ukraine can fight this with whatever they can get from around the world.
Ukraine can fight this with whatever they can get from around the world.
You ignored the entirety of my point, which is that Ukraine has signaled that they want the conflict to end, but their masters in Washington and the EU are pressing them forward regardless. Donbas has been functionally independent from Ukraine for almost ten years now, and only two of those with Russian troops supporting it. It’s not Ukrainian territory anymore in any way that matters.
Ukraine wants the conflict to end with its borders intact and the aggressors out of its territory. It has stated this multiple times, just like any other established country would. It shouldn’t have to give up Donbas just for Russia to cease fire for X years and then creep on forward.
If Ukraine truly wanted the conflict to end and just wanted to be bent over by Russia they would send up the white flag. Luckily they won’t; thankfully they’re fighting; hopefully they continue to push back. Just giving Russia free reign over invaded land sets a bad precedence.
The US and its allies have sabotaged peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on multiple occasions. European politicians have been talking about putting EU troops on Ukrainian soil in support roles so that more Ukrainian men can charge directly into Russian artillery fire for the past few months. In the months leading up to the invasion, the western media apparatus was braying for Russian blood with a fervor that I hadn’t seen since the runup to the Iraq War - and for ten years now the US has been directly backing anti-Russian elements inside Ukraine, regardless of the fact that many of those elements were literally fascists, leading directly to the Maidan coup and the ethnic schism in Ukrainian society that resulted in the civil war.
It’s a proxy war, always has been.
I’m not arguing that it hasn’t been a proxy war. Of course, NATO doesn’t want a global superpower to take over another country. It sets a precedence. Just like they(we) wouldn’t want China to freely take over Taiwan.
Sabatoged peace talks? All the peace talks included Russia taking over at least some of Ukraine’s land. At which point, they slowly move their borders, encapsulating Ukraine piece by piece, year by year. Submitting to “Peace Talks” in which Russia is able to take some kind of Ukrainian land is submission to Russia.
Ukraine didn’t invade Russia. Russia should have simply never invaded Ukraine. Ukraine can fight this with whatever they can get from around the world.
Peace offer:
I receive: your land
You receive: I stop trying to kill you (for now)
I can’t believe the only reason they’re not accepting this deal so graciously offered by Russia is the US stopping them
You ignored the entirety of my point, which is that Ukraine has signaled that they want the conflict to end, but their masters in Washington and the EU are pressing them forward regardless. Donbas has been functionally independent from Ukraine for almost ten years now, and only two of those with Russian troops supporting it. It’s not Ukrainian territory anymore in any way that matters.
Ukraine wants the conflict to end with its borders intact and the aggressors out of its territory. It has stated this multiple times, just like any other established country would. It shouldn’t have to give up Donbas just for Russia to cease fire for X years and then creep on forward.
If Ukraine truly wanted the conflict to end and just wanted to be bent over by Russia they would send up the white flag. Luckily they won’t; thankfully they’re fighting; hopefully they continue to push back. Just giving Russia free reign over invaded land sets a bad precedence.