True Hybrids (F1) will be identical. But the catch is that you can’t have a “true hybrid f1” if your parent lines are not true breeding. Usually this involves selfing the parental lines 6+ times to obtain purebred (all genes the same allele) lines.
Lots of breeders are loose with that step, so you can occasionally get some variation in your F1. But that’s usually because selfing 2 parents 6+ times, then making the hybrid cross is at least 7 generations. In an annual crop, or even biannual (onion/carrot) this can take 7-14 years.
You’ve underestimated it by a bit. It takes 2-3 generations to increase the inbred seed quantities after selfing. So figure 20 years. Plus the female line takes 5 generations to create so another 10 years (onion hybrid seed production requires 3 lines: Male, maintainer & female - the female has cytoplasmic male sterility). All together it used to take 30 years to create a new female line.
Today onions are self-pollinated traditionally for 2 generations, then double-haploids are produced. It takes another 2-3 generations to create the female line with marker-assisted back-crossing. It takes 2-3 generations to create enough parent seed to produce commercial hybrids. So say 12-16 years now for a female line. 10 years for the male and maintainer.
I was trying to keep it simple enough to answer OP about vegetables in general. But you are correct with regard to onions. I actually work for a vegetable breeding company, but I try to stay vague enough to protect my anonymity. It’s a pretty small word in the plant breeding community. (Even smaller in veg seeds specifically.)
You know your stuff, so I’ll have to assume you work for one of our competitors. And based on nothing other than assumptions made in bad faith, I will now consider you my lemmy nemesis.
Edit: wait… it’s somehow BOTH of our cake days? Are you actually me?
I got out of vegetable seeds about a decade ago. My tendency to make the brown-nosers look absolutely stupid became a liability once I hit upper management. Imagine a plant breeder with a talent for computers, logistics, marketing and sales. I asked all the “wrong” questions.
Currently running my own seed dealership/research activities for row crops.
Nice work getting out of the business. Corporations can really crush your soul. I bailed on my plant breeding background because I prefer the data side.
Field corn, alfalfa, cereals, hay grasses, forage crops, turfgrass, covercrops, native grasses, flower seed etc. I never quite know what I will be moving next.
What the heck is happening here? I thought everyone on Lemmy was in tech but you two are both plant breeders and you both came to Lemmy on the same day? That’s bananas.
Thank you both so much for this information. It’s kind of confusing actually! I thought I was asking a question with a simple answer but that’s not the case at all.
That’s what I’m sayin! Goofy ass world we live in. Either that or me and “v” are the same person, and we have split personality disorder and can’t remember the password to each others lemmy accounts…
True Hybrids (F1) will be identical. But the catch is that you can’t have a “true hybrid f1” if your parent lines are not true breeding. Usually this involves selfing the parental lines 6+ times to obtain purebred (all genes the same allele) lines.
Lots of breeders are loose with that step, so you can occasionally get some variation in your F1. But that’s usually because selfing 2 parents 6+ times, then making the hybrid cross is at least 7 generations. In an annual crop, or even biannual (onion/carrot) this can take 7-14 years.
You’ve underestimated it by a bit. It takes 2-3 generations to increase the inbred seed quantities after selfing. So figure 20 years. Plus the female line takes 5 generations to create so another 10 years (onion hybrid seed production requires 3 lines: Male, maintainer & female - the female has cytoplasmic male sterility). All together it used to take 30 years to create a new female line.
Today onions are self-pollinated traditionally for 2 generations, then double-haploids are produced. It takes another 2-3 generations to create the female line with marker-assisted back-crossing. It takes 2-3 generations to create enough parent seed to produce commercial hybrids. So say 12-16 years now for a female line. 10 years for the male and maintainer.
Hahaha!
I was trying to keep it simple enough to answer OP about vegetables in general. But you are correct with regard to onions. I actually work for a vegetable breeding company, but I try to stay vague enough to protect my anonymity. It’s a pretty small word in the plant breeding community. (Even smaller in veg seeds specifically.)
You know your stuff, so I’ll have to assume you work for one of our competitors. And based on nothing other than assumptions made in bad faith, I will now consider you my lemmy nemesis.
Edit: wait… it’s somehow BOTH of our cake days? Are you actually me?
I got out of vegetable seeds about a decade ago. My tendency to make the brown-nosers look absolutely stupid became a liability once I hit upper management. Imagine a plant breeder with a talent for computers, logistics, marketing and sales. I asked all the “wrong” questions.
Currently running my own seed dealership/research activities for row crops.
Damn. That’ll happen.
Nice work getting out of the business. Corporations can really crush your soul. I bailed on my plant breeding background because I prefer the data side.
What kinda seed you selling these days?
Just about anything except vegetable seeds.
Field corn, alfalfa, cereals, hay grasses, forage crops, turfgrass, covercrops, native grasses, flower seed etc. I never quite know what I will be moving next.
You can’t possibly have time to breed all those different crops, so do you just buy from independent breeding/production programs, and sell retail?
Sounds pretty entertaining. Just working with local growers, or all over the nation?
Lol no I only doing a little breeding as a hobby now (Halloween pumpkins).
Last count I had 14 different suppliers from local to internationals.
I have dealerships, distributorships, as well as open market suppliers. I do both wholesale and retail.
Basically, I don’t go fishing enough.
What the heck is happening here? I thought everyone on Lemmy was in tech but you two are both plant breeders and you both came to Lemmy on the same day? That’s bananas.
Thank you both so much for this information. It’s kind of confusing actually! I thought I was asking a question with a simple answer but that’s not the case at all.
That’s what I’m sayin! Goofy ass world we live in. Either that or me and “v” are the same person, and we have split personality disorder and can’t remember the password to each others lemmy accounts…
Shout out Oregon, btw.
You could be the same person in alternate dimensions, who can only talk on one sublemmy. Try ham radios, too, just in case.
LEMMISIS! Next summer at a greenhouse near you! :::inception bwaah sound::::