• @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    -135 months ago

    This is really not that hard, its to negotiate peace with the main part being that Ukraine will never join nato. Its almost like we could have totally avoided hundreds of thousands of dead people if our foreign policy didnt suck so bad.

    • @spongebue
      link
      English
      165 months ago

      Putin should have no reason to give a rat’s ass if any country is in NATO, unless he plans on invading it.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -55 months ago

        They correctly feel that nato is an anti soviet/russian union. Why should they not be concerned about it getting on their border?

        • @spongebue
          link
          English
          115 months ago

          What is NATO doing to interfere with Russia’s domestic operations and sovereignty? Ukraine is not Russia, so Russia should have no say in the matter just because they’re next to each other.

          Same thing would apply if Ukraine were to invade Russia. Ukraine would have no business doing so.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            -25 months ago

            Putting arms near their border… This has been a known problem since the cuban missle crisis.

            • @spongebue
              link
              English
              85 months ago

              I’m also curious how annexing a country and extending your borders to countries already in NATO solves that problem?

            • @spongebue
              link
              English
              65 months ago

              And what history does NATO have of using their arms for offensive purposes, rather than defense?

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                -45 months ago

                A really big history… Take a peak at what countries are in nato and realize they have a long history of being directly in conflict with Russia/Soviet Union.

                • @spongebue
                  link
                  English
                  55 months ago

                  You mean like being a part of the USSR and wanting nothing to do with them?

                  • @[email protected]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    -45 months ago

                    Or directly fighting them and having a 40 year long cold war. Maybe most of those countries have been in direct war with russia in recent memory.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      105 months ago

      Russia doesn’t get to dictate what sovereign nations do. They can fuck off back to their own country, that would put an immediate stop to the war.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        -65 months ago

        Thats true, but what if we had listened to them and prevented hundreds of thousands of dead people? Why would that have been bad?

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          105 months ago

          What if they had listened to us and not fucking invaded a sovereign nation? Why would that have been bad?

          • @Mirshe
            link
            English
            55 months ago

            Moreover, surrendering whatever Russia sticks a flag in is appeasement nonsense. We’ve already seen this strategy before WWII: *oh, Germany will be OK if we just cede Czechoslovakia. Oh, Germany won’t attack if we cede Alsace-Lorraine…" An aggressive power like Russia, who already tried to annex large portions of another sovereign nation in 2008 (they invaded Georgia and got their shit kicked in because they tried the whole “three day thunder run” strategy), almost certainly will not stop if you just “give them what they want”. Eventually, they’ll want more, and more, and more, and you wind up surrendering slice after slice after slice of your country.

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            -75 months ago

            So then nato gets to constantly aggress on them and they cant do anything? And then you are shocked that they invaded.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              85 months ago

              “Aggress on them” by existing on their border? This is apologist and appeasement nonsense. Russia’s rights end at their borders.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                -55 months ago

                Except that the cuban missle crises shows the US completely disagrees (unless it is convenient at that moment). Do you not see how this war was 100% avoidable if nato did not cross the directly drawn line?

                • @[email protected]
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  85 months ago

                  Comparing them to our imperialist actions isn’t the brilliant argument that you think it is.

                  At any rate, NATO has never offered membership to Ukraine — they’ve been explicitly told their corruption issues were a non-starter.

                  And, of course, Ukraine only started those talks following Russia invading Crimea in 2014. Again, Russia is the clear aggressor here. Get real.

                  • @[email protected]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    -45 months ago

                    You are correct that they didnt offer it yet, but it was on the table, and NATO knew that was the reddest of red lines. You also do even know why russia took over Crimea in the first place.

                    And yes, how america would react is imporant because it shows how we really feel, not just propaganda about how they can do what they please.