Jeez Biden now has a choice in my opinion, fighting a two-way battle against a united Republican party and the other half of the dissenting Democrats or swallow his pride and pass on the baton to someone that could be more convincing to voters than Trump. Biden was the right choice against Trump in 2020, because he won by convincing voters he was way more capable than Trump. Now in 2024 is he still as convincing.
Usually a smart person changes course if they see their current trajectory will lead to failure, a proud person will continue their trajectory even if it will lead to failure, and try and try again until they succeed. The proud person might succeed some of the time, the smart person will succeed most of the time
The signs were there before he became Reichschancellor. People just didn’t think he and his party would basically rewire the whole German government into a totalitarian cult of personality. And then we all found out the hard way.
And I’ve already learned that lesson, having lived in Venezuela. Venezuelan people think that this year’s elections will bring change - nope. As long as the authoritarians are in power, they control everything. Those elections are truly rigged.
The U.S. is different, though. Voting still works. For the people who don’t believe this, I’d like them to explain how Trump lost in 2020 while trying to illegally stay in power.
Your argument is basically Trump bad, vote other person. Yes the other person alternative might be better than Trump, but is that really how you would inspire someone to go vote, through fear of the other rather than having an inspiration leader you are willing to support.
Exactly, we see eye to eye in the general sense. I just differ in regards to how we move forward, I believe there still is time to change and overcome and hope to win, but that window is closing quickly. Where I also see your point in that the race has gone too far, we have to back our current horse and hope to win.
The thing I am basing my judgement on is the poll projections. Trump has nothing to lose and everything to win. Democrats will have everything to lose. There is time to change course or study in the future why we did not listen to the Canary in the mine
Indeed. The canary in the mine was when the GOP shut down the government twice under Obama. I thought that action would put an end to them in the next elections. But then everyone got complacent. I was flabbergasted when they won both the senate and the house under Trump.
The “fire” is only burning because the dems are wishing for maga-like willingness to deny what we hear and see for ourselves: Biden is unfit to lead America.
WE ALL SAW IT. YOU DID TOO. Denial and gaslighting will not work with non-maga thinking adults.
Stop pretending it’s okay. If the stakes are as high as the dems themselves keep screaming, then act like it and put up a capable candidate.
He called him a liar many times. He sucked in the debate, sure, but I wouldn’t put all the onus on him. The moderators knew that Trump was lying, and they didn’t do anything to fact-check him.
Just … No.
Of course Trump spews lies, what’s changed over the last 10 years? Nothing. And he’ll get his base to cast ballots.
What has changed is the capacity of President Biden to hold office. It is absolutely mind boggling how tone def Dem leadership is.
This election will be won by compelling undecideds and independent voters to cast a ballot, full stop. It’s a fallacy to think these voters will be compelled purely on policy. Perception is reality, and the perception from any sane person after watching things unfold the last two weeks is that Biden is not fit to carry on as President. Period.
You want Trump to win? Keep Biden in the race. “Trump worse” messaging will blow up in their faces, just like it did with Hillary.
We need a compelling alternative.
Once again, Jon Stewart hits the nail on the head…
This is a weak premise because of what you said earlier:
Perception is reality, and the perception from any sane person after watching things unfold the last two weeks is that Biden is not fit to carry on as President. Period.
And what you’re saying is that those same “sane” people as you call them, would rather have Trump in power? Please.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. My point is, I do not believe you can compel people to vote at all based on ‘Trump bad’. They’ll just stay home. I am not including people who regularly vote.
If you want to get people in line to vote, there needs to be a more compelling candidate.
It sounds like we’ll both find out who’s right in Nov.
Jeez Biden now has a choice in my opinion, fighting a two-way battle against a united Republican party and the other half of the dissenting Democrats or swallow his pride and pass on the baton to someone that could be more convincing to voters than Trump. Biden was the right choice against Trump in 2020, because he won by convincing voters he was way more capable than Trump. Now in 2024 is he still as convincing.
Usually a smart person changes course if they see their current trajectory will lead to failure, a proud person will continue their trajectory even if it will lead to failure, and try and try again until they succeed. The proud person might succeed some of the time, the smart person will succeed most of the time
I hate these arguments because they only focus on Biden.
TRUMP SAID LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE during the debate - oh, but Biden is the problem?!
Just go out and vote, and Trump will go away.
Don’t vote, or do a protest vote and you’ll regret being this dense later.
For the record, Hitler initially won power through elections, he did not begin the whole totalitarian thing until he was already the Chancellor.
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The signs were there before he became Reichschancellor. People just didn’t think he and his party would basically rewire the whole German government into a totalitarian cult of personality. And then we all found out the hard way.
Welp, awesome meme, though I’m not white.
And I’ve already learned that lesson, having lived in Venezuela. Venezuelan people think that this year’s elections will bring change - nope. As long as the authoritarians are in power, they control everything. Those elections are truly rigged.
The U.S. is different, though. Voting still works. For the people who don’t believe this, I’d like them to explain how Trump lost in 2020 while trying to illegally stay in power.
They didn’t say anything about fascism.
Your argument is basically Trump bad, vote other person. Yes the other person alternative might be better than Trump, but is that really how you would inspire someone to go vote, through fear of the other rather than having an inspiration leader you are willing to support.
Of course not. I’d rather motivate a person to go vote for progress, not fear.
But what options do we have now? What should we do? Continue whining about Biden and give Trump a chance, a moron who is 1000x worse?
And let’s be clear. I blame democrats for putting us in this situation as much as the republicans for sucking up to Trump.
But for now, let’s put the fire out first, then deal with internal politics later.
Exactly, we see eye to eye in the general sense. I just differ in regards to how we move forward, I believe there still is time to change and overcome and hope to win, but that window is closing quickly. Where I also see your point in that the race has gone too far, we have to back our current horse and hope to win.
The thing I am basing my judgement on is the poll projections. Trump has nothing to lose and everything to win. Democrats will have everything to lose. There is time to change course or study in the future why we did not listen to the Canary in the mine
Indeed. The canary in the mine was when the GOP shut down the government twice under Obama. I thought that action would put an end to them in the next elections. But then everyone got complacent. I was flabbergasted when they won both the senate and the house under Trump.
The “fire” is only burning because the dems are wishing for maga-like willingness to deny what we hear and see for ourselves: Biden is unfit to lead America.
WE ALL SAW IT. YOU DID TOO. Denial and gaslighting will not work with non-maga thinking adults.
Stop pretending it’s okay. If the stakes are as high as the dems themselves keep screaming, then act like it and put up a capable candidate.
There’s your false statement: “Biden is unfit to lead America.”
No, he is not. Prove it beyond a debate performance.
Because if we’re going to just focus on the debate - then neither is Trump. And as the matter of fact, Trump is way, way more unfit.
So… what do?
Stop pretending it was a “bad night,” for starters.
It was a bad night.
Also, this professor predicted Trump’s 2016 victory when everyone thought Clinton was in the lead. He is now predicting Biden’s victory:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/allan-lichtman-election-predictor-biden-debate-performance_n_66825021e4b0b85bde42df7b
A quote from the article:
He did, but Biden was too slow to rebuttal his lies
He called him a liar many times. He sucked in the debate, sure, but I wouldn’t put all the onus on him. The moderators knew that Trump was lying, and they didn’t do anything to fact-check him.
Just … No. Of course Trump spews lies, what’s changed over the last 10 years? Nothing. And he’ll get his base to cast ballots.
What has changed is the capacity of President Biden to hold office. It is absolutely mind boggling how tone def Dem leadership is.
This election will be won by compelling undecideds and independent voters to cast a ballot, full stop. It’s a fallacy to think these voters will be compelled purely on policy. Perception is reality, and the perception from any sane person after watching things unfold the last two weeks is that Biden is not fit to carry on as President. Period.
You want Trump to win? Keep Biden in the race. “Trump worse” messaging will blow up in their faces, just like it did with Hillary. We need a compelling alternative.
Once again, Jon Stewart hits the nail on the head…
This is a weak premise because of what you said earlier:
And what you’re saying is that those same “sane” people as you call them, would rather have Trump in power? Please.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. My point is, I do not believe you can compel people to vote at all based on ‘Trump bad’. They’ll just stay home. I am not including people who regularly vote. If you want to get people in line to vote, there needs to be a more compelling candidate.
It sounds like we’ll both find out who’s right in Nov.
Trump lost the popular vote in 2016.
And he lost to Biden in 2020, because people saw that he sucked.
2024 is not comparable to 2016. It’s comparable to 2020, in the sense that most Americans do not want Trump. They will not stay at home.
Switching candidates now is very risky.
And this is coming from someone who would have preferred Bernie Sanders to face Trump in 2016 and in 2020.