Kyle shouldnt have turned up to a protest with a tool designed to kill people. He intentionally put himself in danger and then justified his shooting by self defense.
None of that would have happened if ol kyle just stayed home.
I find it bizarre how the right has absolutely zero nuance or acceptance of he caused it by being there in the first place.
He was attacked. He defended himself. which completely ignores he did not need to be there, and wouldnt have had any reason to “defend” himself if he just stayed home
A gun toting child decided he wanted to defend … a building? and play medic.
and the right lifts him proudly up as “defending himself”.
Kyle shouldnt have turned up to a protest with a tool designed to kill people. He intentionally put himself in danger and then justified his shooting by self defense.
Do you always blame victims? LIke she shouldn’t have wore that skirt? Or she shouldn’t have had that extra drink?
He had every legal right to be there with his rifle.
which completely ignores he did not need to be there, and wouldnt have had any reason to “defend” himself if he just stayed home
The same could be said for the rioters; had they not tried to kill him, they would be alive today.
The only person acting legally that evening was Kyle, and somehow you think he is responsible.
You are comparing someone wearing clothes to someone else turning up a violent riot with a weapon to kill people, and then actively goes out to look for danger? And he had clothes thrown at him. He thought they wanted his gun.
Yeah absolutely the same situation.
Its incredibly strange to refer to rittenhouse as a victim
I would suggest that you read more about the actual event. Go look on any left-of-center site if you want, as long as it’s covering factual information, rather than offering commentary.
There is no information that, prior to the shooting, Rittenhouse had directly or indirectly threatened anyone.
Rittenhouse was on his way out when he was accosted by Rosenbaum; Rosenbaum threw a bag of clothing at Rittenhouse, and tried to grab his rifle. Rittenhouse shot him four times at close range, killing him.
Rittenhouse tried to run away; he was pursued by a crowd. Huber struck him with a skateboard and attempted to grab his rifle; Rittenhouse fatally shot him. Grosskreutz pointed a firearm at Rittenhouse, who shot him once in the arm; Grosskreutz survived, although he’s lost much of the function in his arm.
Rittenhouse did not instigate the violence; he was leaving the protest when he was accosted and attacked.
Should he have been there in the first place? No. Should he have brought a rifle? Also no. (And, in point of fact, his mom didn’t know that he had the rifle, because it had been bought for him by a friend–not his mom as was reported. But, all that said, he was never the aggressor in any legal sense; simply being armed is, by itself, not an immediate threat to do harm, and he was not acting in a threatening manner. Provocative, yes, but threatening, no.
Is Rittenhouse, personally, still a shitty person? Oh yeah. But whether or not he’s a shitbag, he still has a right to defend his own life. Which is what he did, once you actually look at testimony in court.
Here is what Rosenbaum said to Kyle earlier that evening.
Another witness described how, accompanied by Rittenhouse, he tried to calm a disagreement between Rosenbaum and another man when Rosenbaum made threats to kill both of them, saying “if I catch any of you guys alone tonight, I’m going to fucking kill you!”
Should he have been there in the first place? No. Should he have brought a rifle? Also no.
He had just as much right to be there as the rioters. He also was legally allowed to bring a rifle. Suggesting otherwise is just victim blaming.
Something often forgotten is that Kyle was a supporter of lefty politics before this event.
Eh. He says that he was. But given how sharp his turn was to Proud Man-Children, et al. as soon as he was in legal trouble, I have a hard time believing it. I’ve def. seen a number of people that say that they support “progressive” politics, but they only support them as long as it doesn’t affect them in any way; as soon as it e.g. hurts their property values, they suddenly go full-conservative. I’ve got a buddy that supports criminal justice reform, but balks at college education for convicts because college cost him money, and why should they get it free? (Hint: because it sharply reduces recidivism.)
I also have a hard time believing that someone that claimed to be in support of leftist politics would be at the protests supporting businesses, of all things. Why not go and help people that were protesting peacefully by providing support? And if he was really just there to provide medical help–as if he was a corpsman, which he ain’t–and help with clean up, why would he need a rifle at all? It’s just so goddamn stupid.
I honestly think that, had he not been armed, he would have been fine; I think the rifle made people think he was a threat, when he wasn’t.
But given how sharp his turn was to Proud Man-Children, et al. as soon as he was in legal trouble, I have a hard time believing
When your fellow lefty tries to murder you, I can see why you would switch pretty quickly.
I’ve got a buddy that supports criminal justice reform, but balks at college education for convicts because college cost him money,
I support college for inmates, even if they are never getting out. Education is a good thing.
leftist politics would be at the protests supporting businesses
Even if a lefty would, you need businesses.
Why not go and help people that were protesting peacefully by providing support?
By protecting the property, you are providing support to those peacefully protesting.
as if he was a corpsman
I started my career as a combat medic in the Army. We carried rifles. We need a rifle to stop those trying to harm us or the people we are helping. Everyone does not follow the rules of warfare.
I will say the ironic part is only at a Democrat riot can you shoot three people and hit two child molesters and three felons.
When your fellow lefty tries to murder you, I can see why you would switch pretty quickly.
Why? To put it in concrete terms, the person that tried to assassinate Trump was, by all accounts, a hard-right conservative. Would it be reasonable to expect Trump to make a hard left turn? I’ve been sexually assaulted by a gay man; would I be reasonable in taking that experience, and extrapolating that to mean that all gay men were just lying in wait to sexually assault straight men?
The truth is that people that truly believe in their core values don’t tend to change those values overnight. It’s almost always a long, drawn-out process, regardless of how deeply traumatic an event might be. The speed at which Rittenhouse changed course leads me to believe that he was either never left of center in the first place, or doesn’t hold any moral/ethical beliefs very deeply. Given that he is, by all accounts, quite dumb, it could readily be the latter.
I support college for inmates, even if they are never getting out. Education is a good thing.
Sure. And I agree. We need significant criminal justice reform, even for people that we’ve decided are too dangerous to ever get out. But most people will get out, eventually, and they need some kind of opportunities if they aren’t going to end up getting recycled right back into the system. I’ve found that approaching prison reform from a utilitarian perspective appeals more to people that trend conservative than moral appeals about education being good for it’s own sake, and therefore something that we should be making available to prisoners. Esp. since there are a lot of people–mostly conservatives–that will say, ‘well, I had to pay for it, so why should someone else get it for free?’
By protecting the property
…That’s not a very leftist view, TBH. Valuing property over the people themselves is more of a typical capitalist view. To quote MLK Jr., “But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again.”
I started my career as a combat medic in the Army. We carried rifles.
Not my point. My point was that he had very, very limited training in dealing with medical emergencies. In a real medical emergency, he would have been absolutely useless. AFAIK, he hasn’t taken a basic ‘stop the bleed’ class, much less a combat lifesaver course. (And, TBH, I haven’t been able to find the latter anywhere in my area, which makes it prohibitively expensive, but I’m at least up for stopping most bleeds and have a solid IFAK that I keep on my gun belt.)
I will say the ironic part is only at a Democrat riot can you shoot three people and hit two child molesters and three felons.
And yet, here we are, talking about a Republican presser where the target was both a felon and a rapist, and has been found to be such in court. So ima say no, Dems don’t have the lock on felonies or sex crimes.
To put it in concrete terms, the person that tried to assassinate Trump was, by all accounts, a hard-right conservative.
We have no idea what that guy’s politics were. Everyone is speculating but we really don’t know.
. Esp. since there are a lot of people–mostly conservatives–that will say, ‘well, I had to pay for it, so why should someone else get it for free?’
Prisoners are unique. It keeps them occupied instead of getting themselves in further trouble.
Here is some irony for you. My girlfriend worked in a state prison for awhile. When it was a private prison, the education options and the food quality were expanded. They did a cost analysis and said that if we treat them like people, we need fewer guards and have fewer infractions of the policies. When they state took it back over, they removed most of the education options and went back to the shit food.
I am not advocating for private prisons but I did find it interesting they expanded the quality of prison life because it saved money. Maybe the state should think about that.
a real medical emergency, he would have been absolutely useless. AFAIK, he hasn’t taken a basic ‘stop the bleed’ class, much less a combat lifesaver course
You don’t know but you assume he would have been useless? In all fairness, Kyle showed extreme self-control and discipline that day. He only engaged targets that were a threat, only hit the targets he was aiming at and was not distracted when they were screaming after being shot.
I suspect he would do fine in a medical emergency.
And yet, here we are, talking about a Republican presser where the target was both a felon and a rapist, and has been found to be such in court. So ima say no, Dems don’t have the lock on felonies or sex crimes.
The felony charges will be overturned, and Trump was never convicted of rape. He was found liable for rape but not guilty of rape. They know that they couldn’t have gotten a criminal conviction outside of the Mickey Mouse court. The standards of evidence would have never worked in a criminal court. Surprised it worked in a civil court. I suspect that will be overturned in appeals as well.
Ah yes, I remember all the republicans decrying the attackers
The silence from the right in condemning anything relating to these right wing terror attacks is deafening.
@breadsmasher @wintermute_oregon Calling #KyleRittenhouse an “attacker” in 2024 is wild lol
… shooting someone isn’t an attack?
hE wAs DeFenDinG hImSeLf
You can defend yourself without murdering people. Not surprised americans don’t understand that
@breadsmasher “Most people don’t know this, but self defense is murder”
Most americans dont know this, but the rest of the world dont need to carry guns their whole lives “just in case”
You dont need to actively put yourself in danger to then “use self defense”.
Thats murder with an extra step.
@breadsmasher Please, tell me more of this wisdom, it is funny to read
Why waste the time? Itll just slide right over your smooth brain
@breadsmasher No no no dude please, it’s been a joy to read so far
See how bizarre lefties are. Defending yourself from being murdered is wrong. Kyle should have just let them murder him.
Kyle shouldnt have turned up to a protest with a tool designed to kill people. He intentionally put himself in danger and then justified his shooting by self defense.
None of that would have happened if ol kyle just stayed home.
I find it bizarre how the right has absolutely zero nuance or acceptance of he caused it by being there in the first place.
He was attacked. He defended himself. which completely ignores he did not need to be there, and wouldnt have had any reason to “defend” himself if he just stayed home
A gun toting child decided he wanted to defend … a building? and play medic.
and the right lifts him proudly up as “defending himself”.
Do you always blame victims? LIke she shouldn’t have wore that skirt? Or she shouldn’t have had that extra drink?
He had every legal right to be there with his rifle.
The only person acting legally that evening was Kyle, and somehow you think he is responsible.
You are comparing someone wearing clothes to someone else turning up a violent riot with a weapon to kill people, and then actively goes out to look for danger? And he had clothes thrown at him. He thought they wanted his gun.
Yeah absolutely the same situation.
Its incredibly strange to refer to rittenhouse as a victim
He didn’t know what was thrown at him. Well, the guy tried to take his gun from him. So, it appears Kyle was right about his assumption.
He is the victim. Three violent felons attacked him, and he had to use self-defense to protect himself from death or severe injury.
The only people at fault here are three violent felons who wanted to harm Kyle.
Kyle rittenhouse was attacked by violent, fascist lefties while doing a legal activity . Why would republicans decry self defense?
Absolute LOL. Are they “antifa” (anti fascist) or are they “fascist”. Or is it just whatever label you wanna throw out?
The right really hasnt got a clue
I would suggest that you read more about the actual event. Go look on any left-of-center site if you want, as long as it’s covering factual information, rather than offering commentary.
There is no information that, prior to the shooting, Rittenhouse had directly or indirectly threatened anyone.
Rittenhouse was on his way out when he was accosted by Rosenbaum; Rosenbaum threw a bag of clothing at Rittenhouse, and tried to grab his rifle. Rittenhouse shot him four times at close range, killing him.
Rittenhouse tried to run away; he was pursued by a crowd. Huber struck him with a skateboard and attempted to grab his rifle; Rittenhouse fatally shot him. Grosskreutz pointed a firearm at Rittenhouse, who shot him once in the arm; Grosskreutz survived, although he’s lost much of the function in his arm.
Rittenhouse did not instigate the violence; he was leaving the protest when he was accosted and attacked.
Should he have been there in the first place? No. Should he have brought a rifle? Also no. (And, in point of fact, his mom didn’t know that he had the rifle, because it had been bought for him by a friend–not his mom as was reported. But, all that said, he was never the aggressor in any legal sense; simply being armed is, by itself, not an immediate threat to do harm, and he was not acting in a threatening manner. Provocative, yes, but threatening, no.
Is Rittenhouse, personally, still a shitty person? Oh yeah. But whether or not he’s a shitbag, he still has a right to defend his own life. Which is what he did, once you actually look at testimony in court.
“Someone threw clothes at me and I felt he wanted to take my gun so I killed him”
You almost made it to the end of sentence, you missed the grabbed his rifle part.
Are you talking about yourself?
I posted one sentence. Of which you missed half.
Original quote
Your editorialized summary.
Can you spot the difference.
Here is what Rosenbaum said to Kyle earlier that evening.
Another witness described how, accompanied by Rittenhouse, he tried to calm a disagreement between Rosenbaum and another man when Rosenbaum made threats to kill both of them, saying “if I catch any of you guys alone tonight, I’m going to fucking kill you!”
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/watch-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-for-kenosha-shooting-continues-day-3
When he found Kyle, he then tried to kill him. That’s why Kyle shot him in self defense.
Something often forgotten is that Kyle was a supporter of lefty politics before this event.
Eh. He says that he was. But given how sharp his turn was to Proud Man-Children, et al. as soon as he was in legal trouble, I have a hard time believing it. I’ve def. seen a number of people that say that they support “progressive” politics, but they only support them as long as it doesn’t affect them in any way; as soon as it e.g. hurts their property values, they suddenly go full-conservative. I’ve got a buddy that supports criminal justice reform, but balks at college education for convicts because college cost him money, and why should they get it free? (Hint: because it sharply reduces recidivism.)
I also have a hard time believing that someone that claimed to be in support of leftist politics would be at the protests supporting businesses, of all things. Why not go and help people that were protesting peacefully by providing support? And if he was really just there to provide medical help–as if he was a corpsman, which he ain’t–and help with clean up, why would he need a rifle at all? It’s just so goddamn stupid.
I honestly think that, had he not been armed, he would have been fine; I think the rifle made people think he was a threat, when he wasn’t.
By protecting the property, you are providing support to those peacefully protesting.
I started my career as a combat medic in the Army. We carried rifles. We need a rifle to stop those trying to harm us or the people we are helping. Everyone does not follow the rules of warfare.
I will say the ironic part is only at a Democrat riot can you shoot three people and hit two child molesters and three felons.
Why? To put it in concrete terms, the person that tried to assassinate Trump was, by all accounts, a hard-right conservative. Would it be reasonable to expect Trump to make a hard left turn? I’ve been sexually assaulted by a gay man; would I be reasonable in taking that experience, and extrapolating that to mean that all gay men were just lying in wait to sexually assault straight men?
The truth is that people that truly believe in their core values don’t tend to change those values overnight. It’s almost always a long, drawn-out process, regardless of how deeply traumatic an event might be. The speed at which Rittenhouse changed course leads me to believe that he was either never left of center in the first place, or doesn’t hold any moral/ethical beliefs very deeply. Given that he is, by all accounts, quite dumb, it could readily be the latter.
Sure. And I agree. We need significant criminal justice reform, even for people that we’ve decided are too dangerous to ever get out. But most people will get out, eventually, and they need some kind of opportunities if they aren’t going to end up getting recycled right back into the system. I’ve found that approaching prison reform from a utilitarian perspective appeals more to people that trend conservative than moral appeals about education being good for it’s own sake, and therefore something that we should be making available to prisoners. Esp. since there are a lot of people–mostly conservatives–that will say, ‘well, I had to pay for it, so why should someone else get it for free?’
…That’s not a very leftist view, TBH. Valuing property over the people themselves is more of a typical capitalist view. To quote MLK Jr., “But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again.”
Not my point. My point was that he had very, very limited training in dealing with medical emergencies. In a real medical emergency, he would have been absolutely useless. AFAIK, he hasn’t taken a basic ‘stop the bleed’ class, much less a combat lifesaver course. (And, TBH, I haven’t been able to find the latter anywhere in my area, which makes it prohibitively expensive, but I’m at least up for stopping most bleeds and have a solid IFAK that I keep on my gun belt.)
And yet, here we are, talking about a Republican presser where the target was both a felon and a rapist, and has been found to be such in court. So ima say no, Dems don’t have the lock on felonies or sex crimes.
We have no idea what that guy’s politics were. Everyone is speculating but we really don’t know.
Prisoners are unique. It keeps them occupied instead of getting themselves in further trouble.
Here is some irony for you. My girlfriend worked in a state prison for awhile. When it was a private prison, the education options and the food quality were expanded. They did a cost analysis and said that if we treat them like people, we need fewer guards and have fewer infractions of the policies. When they state took it back over, they removed most of the education options and went back to the shit food.
I am not advocating for private prisons but I did find it interesting they expanded the quality of prison life because it saved money. Maybe the state should think about that.
You don’t know but you assume he would have been useless? In all fairness, Kyle showed extreme self-control and discipline that day. He only engaged targets that were a threat, only hit the targets he was aiming at and was not distracted when they were screaming after being shot. I suspect he would do fine in a medical emergency.
The felony charges will be overturned, and Trump was never convicted of rape. He was found liable for rape but not guilty of rape. They know that they couldn’t have gotten a criminal conviction outside of the Mickey Mouse court. The standards of evidence would have never worked in a criminal court. Surprised it worked in a civil court. I suspect that will be overturned in appeals as well.
https://www.vvdailypress.com/story/news/local/desert-dispatch/2018/12/05/antifa-is-fascist-exactly-opposite/985002007/
Right, that is why they are burning buildings, trying to quell free speech, they are the “anti fascist”. Right…