Where do you live that suffering would be reduced by a Trump presidency?
I live outside of Ukraine (but only because I left before the war started, as otherwise I would be trapped together with millions of other Ukrainians), so fortunately personally I’m not suffering (my biggest “suffering” is that our government now denies to give people new passports abroad, and if I come back I will be trapped just like all the other people there, but well, it’s nothing compared to what other people have to endure).
For those who are staying trapped in Ukraine though, Trump presidency would (hopefully) absolutely reduce their suffering.
The only thing that needs to happen in Ukraine is for Russia to get the fuck out. Bam, problem solved. No more dead Ukrainians.
Most likely it would indeed solve the problem.
But it is not happening and Russia does not “gets the fuck out”.
A Trump presidency will not end the suffering - it will just legitimize it.
What do you mean?
If he follows through with his promises to end the war by forcing both sides to negotiate, it absolutely will end the suffering.
You are dreaming if you think handing over a significant portion of your country to an invader will be the end of it.
You know how Russia took Chrimea and no one really did anything about it? That’s why they invaded Ukraine. Trump will “stop” this invasion but it won’t be the last - and it certainly won’t stop at Ukraine. It also sends a very clear signal to China that there will be no repercussions if they invade Taiwan.
You are way too short-sighted with your assessment. Trump and Putin are both shady criminals and you’re completely ignoring history
Your whole reply is this speculation I see again and again when trying to have a discussion here on Lemmy… “if you don’t stop Putin he will conquer the world”.
You are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians because of this belief, instead of doing something yourself (like joining foreign legion). I consider it absolutely wrong and immoral.
Trump and Putin are both shady criminals
So are Zelensky, Biden, Boris Johnson and everybody else.
completely ignoring history
What history? That history in which almost every single war ends in finally starting negotiations?
You are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians because of this belief. I consider it absolutely wrong and immoral.
On the contrary, I think all reasonable countries need to come to Ukraine’s aid here to stop the invasion. Russia needs to be defeated and admonished. It needs to be made clear to everyone that illegal invasions and land grabs will be stopped with force.
So are Zelensky, Biden, Boris Johnson and everybody else.
Do you really think any of those people are on the same level of evil as Trump and Putin?
What history? That history in which almost every single war ends in finally starting negotiations?
First off, that’s not true. More wars end with negotiation than total victory but it’s not “almost every war” by a longshot. Clearly you don’t know history. If you did, you’d realize that most “negotiations” aren’t even - one side comes out on top…and in this case, it would be the country who started the whole thing. It’s crazy that you want your country to lose.
But I was specifically referring to the history of the people and countries in question. Two of the worst leaders of a major country in modern history with a track record of putting personal gain above the well being of the country they claim to represent.
On the contrary, I think all reasonable countries need to come to Ukraine’s aid here to stop the invasion. Russia needs to be defeated and admonished. It needs to be made clear to everyone that illegal invasions and land grabs will be stopped with force.
So exactly as I said “you are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians because of this belief”.
Any aid to Ukrainian government helps them stay in power, and continue to terrorize the people, kidnap them from the streets & send to die, forbid people to leave the country, etc.
Do you really think any of those people are on the same level of evil as Trump and Putin?
Of course.
They all participate in murdering Ukrainians.
And I don’t see Trump as evil btw, I see him as the only hope for my friends and family survival.
It’s crazy that you want your country to lose.
Well, name one reason I should support the current government of my country.
Every single person I know, especially those who are still trapped in Ukraine, is more afraid of Zelensky than Putin. It’s Zelensky who wants to kidnap them (or their husband/son/brother/etc.) and send them to die. It’s Zelensky who makes people afraid of leaving their home. It’s Zelensky who prevents them from leaving the country. It’s Zelensky who continues saying “no” to negotiations.
You want to know how bad the situation is? People used to escape Ukraine through occupied territories, through Russia. People would use whatever opportunity they have, just to get to the occupied territories (mostly by lying to the authorities about having family on the occupied territories, because they used to let you through in those cases), because from there they could simply head to Russia, from where they could either go whenever they want or live in Russia in peace. I know this because a family member of mine managed to escape this way. Now they don’t let anyone through, because they realized that people prefer risking their lives by going to occupied territories than dying for Zelensky. How many people died trying to escape through mountains or rivers? For an average Ukrainian, it’s Zelensky who wants to kill them, not Putin.
And you still don’t see a reason why I want peace?
There is also this propaganda of Russia being the modern Nazi Germany that wants to exterminate Ukrainians or something. Can you imagine a Pole, or even better a Jew during WW2 who wants to escape their country and go to Nazi Germany, because they would be safer there and treated better? Yeah, I doubt it. This is the reality in Ukraine though. Or rather it was, because as I said - now even that is impossible…
You see how absurd this is?
I like that two whole word phrase you’ve learned, you lean quite hard on it though. Do they teach you that hilarious tactic in the ruzzian troll camps?
I live outside of Ukraine (but only because I left before the war started, as otherwise I would be trapped together with millions of other Ukrainians), so fortunately personally I’m not suffering (my biggest “suffering” is that our government now denies to give people new passports abroad, and if I come back I will be trapped just like all the other people there, but well, it’s nothing compared to what other people have to endure).
For those who are staying trapped in Ukraine though, Trump presidency would (hopefully) absolutely reduce their suffering.
Most likely it would indeed solve the problem.
But it is not happening and Russia does not “gets the fuck out”.
What do you mean?
If he follows through with his promises to end the war by forcing both sides to negotiate, it absolutely will end the suffering.
You are dreaming if you think handing over a significant portion of your country to an invader will be the end of it.
You know how Russia took Chrimea and no one really did anything about it? That’s why they invaded Ukraine. Trump will “stop” this invasion but it won’t be the last - and it certainly won’t stop at Ukraine. It also sends a very clear signal to China that there will be no repercussions if they invade Taiwan.
You are way too short-sighted with your assessment. Trump and Putin are both shady criminals and you’re completely ignoring history
Your whole reply is this speculation I see again and again when trying to have a discussion here on Lemmy… “if you don’t stop Putin he will conquer the world”.
You are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians because of this belief, instead of doing something yourself (like joining foreign legion). I consider it absolutely wrong and immoral.
So are Zelensky, Biden, Boris Johnson and everybody else.
What history? That history in which almost every single war ends in finally starting negotiations?
On the contrary, I think all reasonable countries need to come to Ukraine’s aid here to stop the invasion. Russia needs to be defeated and admonished. It needs to be made clear to everyone that illegal invasions and land grabs will be stopped with force.
Do you really think any of those people are on the same level of evil as Trump and Putin?
First off, that’s not true. More wars end with negotiation than total victory but it’s not “almost every war” by a longshot. Clearly you don’t know history. If you did, you’d realize that most “negotiations” aren’t even - one side comes out on top…and in this case, it would be the country who started the whole thing. It’s crazy that you want your country to lose.
But I was specifically referring to the history of the people and countries in question. Two of the worst leaders of a major country in modern history with a track record of putting personal gain above the well being of the country they claim to represent.
So exactly as I said “you are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians because of this belief”.
Any aid to Ukrainian government helps them stay in power, and continue to terrorize the people, kidnap them from the streets & send to die, forbid people to leave the country, etc.
Of course.
They all participate in murdering Ukrainians.
And I don’t see Trump as evil btw, I see him as the only hope for my friends and family survival.
Well, name one reason I should support the current government of my country.
Every single person I know, especially those who are still trapped in Ukraine, is more afraid of Zelensky than Putin. It’s Zelensky who wants to kidnap them (or their husband/son/brother/etc.) and send them to die. It’s Zelensky who makes people afraid of leaving their home. It’s Zelensky who prevents them from leaving the country. It’s Zelensky who continues saying “no” to negotiations.
You want to know how bad the situation is? People used to escape Ukraine through occupied territories, through Russia. People would use whatever opportunity they have, just to get to the occupied territories (mostly by lying to the authorities about having family on the occupied territories, because they used to let you through in those cases), because from there they could simply head to Russia, from where they could either go whenever they want or live in Russia in peace. I know this because a family member of mine managed to escape this way. Now they don’t let anyone through, because they realized that people prefer risking their lives by going to occupied territories than dying for Zelensky. How many people died trying to escape through mountains or rivers? For an average Ukrainian, it’s Zelensky who wants to kill them, not Putin.
And you still don’t see a reason why I want peace?
There is also this propaganda of Russia being the modern Nazi Germany that wants to exterminate Ukrainians or something. Can you imagine a Pole, or even better a Jew during WW2 who wants to escape their country and go to Nazi Germany, because they would be safer there and treated better? Yeah, I doubt it. This is the reality in Ukraine though. Or rather it was, because as I said - now even that is impossible…
You see how absurd this is?
You’re quite obviously paid to support ruzzian nazi invasions. Hope those worthless rubles are worth being on the wrong side of history.
You can fuck off to hell you worthless piece of trash.
It’s actually current Ukrainian government that are nazis :)
Typical guy with ad hominems without actual arguments :)
No, it isn’t. You’re embarrassing yourself.
I like that two whole word phrase you’ve learned, you lean quite hard on it though. Do they teach you that hilarious tactic in the ruzzian troll camps?
Oh, really?
So for example Azov brigade and glorification of Stepan Bandera is just a Russian misinformation, am I right?