Can’t we just criticize whatever he is doing wrong without stupid comparisons?
No, he is not a Hitler. No, Gaza is not a concentration camp. And the classification of whether it is a genocide or not will not be the job of a random Lemmy user.
Well it’s also not my job to tell you to shut up but I’m still going to. The dude is a hateful monster wanting to wipe a group of people off the map and from history because they are living where they were born and he really wants to put up some shopping malls and houses there instead. Now back to my opening sentence unless you actually have something useful to add to the discussion shut up.
Why do you even write this text, if you don’t want to hear what I want to say?
BTW: I don’t argue against the fact that terrible things are happening there. But that’s not the definition of genocide.
If you want to call it a genocide, go ahead. I’ll just go ahead and mention the terrible things happening there without using buzzwords.
Zionists when they hear about the genocide they’re causing.
That’s not the definition of a genocide.
Zionists when they hear “antisemitism” also includes the rest of the semitic people.
No that just means the jews.
Fuck off with the two-face rhetoric pushing agendas and twisting meaning of the words that only fit a single narrative. We know whatever you’re going to say is going to sound like you’re always right.
Nobody should get a pass to cause a genocide because it’s doesn’t live up to your requirement for violence. Be better.
I’m just differentiating between facts and accusations.
The status quo is that there are states accusing Israel of comitting a genocide.
What’s interesting: I think, I have a somehow similar opinion about the brutality happening in Gaza and that there must be a plan to end this as soon as possible. But just because I don’t use an emotion driven buzz word, people tell me to fuck off or shut up…
Originally, I did not want to write this, but… What’s somehow ironic: I’m probably talking to people here whose own current and future government (does not matter whether Biden, Trump or Harris) states clearly that it’s NOT a genocide. So, my “let’s wait for the experts to classify it” view is not even as crazy as to the one of their government. But yeah… I don’t know where you are from… So, this is an accusation, too.
But whatever… I’ll keep describing what’s happening in Gaza without using that word, as long a it’s only a Genocide accusation.
It’s interesting that professionals who know about public international law are usually careful calling it genocide, because this is a complex topic, but random lemmy users with no experience are 100% sure (probably because they heard it from others).
I have no problem calling it genocide when it is actually classified as one. But sorry… I think, it’s just stupid to use this word as a buzzword.
Imagine, Netanyahu would actually build concentration camps or declare to kill all palestinians or explain that Jewish people are surpirior because of their blood and then conquer the whole middle east region?
I mean… Who do you compare him with in that case? You have already used the Hitler comparison, which is already a 100/100 on the “very bad person” ladder…
The UN summary of Gaza in 2020:
"the apparent strategy of Israel is the indefinite warehousing of an unwanted population of 2 million Palestinians, whom it has confined to a narrow strip of land through its comprehensive 15-year-old air, land and sea blockade (with further restrictions by Egypt on the southern border of Gaza). Ban Ki-moon has called this political quarantining of the population a “collective punishment”, which is a serious breach of international law.
Jewish supremacy:
“Palestinian citizens of Israel, who comprise about 19% of the population, face many forms of institutionalized discrimination. In 2018, discrimination against Palestinians was crystallized in a constitutional law which, for the first time, enshrined Israel exclusively as the “nation state of the Jewish people”. The law also promotes the building of Jewish settlements and downgrades Arabic’s status as an official language”
"The Torah not only designates all of “Greater Syria” for the people of Israel, but also commands them to conquer and settle this land. This region includes land stretching from Egypt to the Euphrates River, on both sides of the Great Rift Valley, including the Sinai Peninsula. "
“The deep-rooted perception of Eretz-Yisrael as a whole was not only found in the traditional Zionist maximalism of the Revisionist Herut (later Likud) camp, but increasingly gained ground in all the main political parties, including the traditionally pragmatic Labour Party. This maximalist concept of state frontiers was based on a Zionist political and military strategy (backed by a very powerful army equipped with nuclear weapons) which served as a means to essentially imperialist ends: the creation of a Middle East more favourable to a greatly enlarged and regionally dominant Jewish state.”
the 2nd one is about terrible discrimination, not about what I wrote.
and the 3rd part is about a 2.000 years old book. Really? Some chapters in there probably explain in detail how many goats or sheep we need to exchange to solve a conflict…
I’m not sure, what you are trying to do… But if you really want to think that Netanyahu is pretty much Hitler and that it can’t be any worse, feel free to do so… I won’t stop you. I have a different opinion.
BTW: I don’t think, anyone uses spirituality to justify what’s happening in Gaza. They usually use the massacre in Isarel of last year as justification.
It’s clear you don’t want to challenge your beliefs. I find that a lot with Germans who convince themselves that supporting Israel is the right thing to do in spite of the mounting evidence.
This will be another shameful legacy of your country.
Compared with others here, I think, I can actually understand the dilemma on both sides.
I hope, that Hamas loses power first and then Netanyahu. I think, this is the only way that can lead to peace in that region in the future. Otherwise, this will continue for even more decades. Hamas’ main motto is still the total destruction of Israel. And Netanyahu’s seddling strategy is also terrible if you want a solution.
But what’s your idea to solve this? It’s a complex conflict that is happening for decades and you and others act like it’s easy to solve it… If the terror organization Hamas keeps power, you can already put an event into your calendar when the next rockets will hit Israel… With other words: What’s YOUR strategy to get rid of Hamas?
No you are not a dispassionate observer. You are, unfortunately, just another transmission vector of Zionist propaganda.
To everyone outside the Western media bubble, Hamas is an anti -colonial movement much like the Viet Cong or the Irish Republicans. Saying " Hamas needs to be defeated" is saying the self determination of a people needs to be defeated which is essentially the Zionist position.
The problem with Israel isn’t limited to Netanyahu. Zionism has always dehumanised and delegitimised Palestinians, see them as terrorists and an enemy to be feared and attacked. This fear of difference is an element of Ur-fascism as defined by Umberto Eco.
Getting rid of the apartheid and occupation and Hamas no longer needs to exist. One state with equal rights for everyone.
Hamas has constantly advocated for the total destruction of Israel. That’s their main goal.
I think, your view is that Netanyahu wants to conquer all the Palestine area? They want something similar. They want to conquer all the Israel area…
Hamas did not even attack the Israeli government last year. They attacked pretty much only civilians.
What do you call that? You use the crazy words (facist, apartheid, genocide, Hitler, …) quickly, but don’t agree that Hamas is a terror organization??? Seriously???
Hamas is a pain in the ass for Israel and also for the people in Gaza. They use their own people as human shields. They don’t even want to negotiate. They want to destroy Israel.
My view: Hamas in power is a guarantee that this will go on for many more decades.
Just curious because you wrote “dispassionate observer”… Do you think that you can put yourself in the place of both sides? Can you understand why Israel didn’t just stand still after the massacre last year? Can you understand that they would like to solve the Hamas problem once and for all (the HOW is of course always debatable) to not get attacked again?
Can’t we just criticize whatever he is doing wrong without stupid comparisons?
No, he is not a Hitler. No, Gaza is not a concentration camp. And the classification of whether it is a genocide or not will not be the job of a random Lemmy user.
Well it’s also not my job to tell you to shut up but I’m still going to. The dude is a hateful monster wanting to wipe a group of people off the map and from history because they are living where they were born and he really wants to put up some shopping malls and houses there instead. Now back to my opening sentence unless you actually have something useful to add to the discussion shut up.
Why do you even write this text, if you don’t want to hear what I want to say?
BTW: I don’t argue against the fact that terrible things are happening there. But that’s not the definition of genocide. If you want to call it a genocide, go ahead. I’ll just go ahead and mention the terrible things happening there without using buzzwords.
Zionists when they hear about the genocide they’re causing.
Zionists when they hear “antisemitism” also includes the rest of the semitic people.
Fuck off with the two-face rhetoric pushing agendas and twisting meaning of the words that only fit a single narrative. We know whatever you’re going to say is going to sound like you’re always right.
Nobody should get a pass to cause a genocide because it’s doesn’t live up to your requirement for violence. Be better.
I’m just differentiating between facts and accusations.
The status quo is that there are states accusing Israel of comitting a genocide.
What’s interesting: I think, I have a somehow similar opinion about the brutality happening in Gaza and that there must be a plan to end this as soon as possible. But just because I don’t use an emotion driven buzz word, people tell me to fuck off or shut up…
Originally, I did not want to write this, but… What’s somehow ironic: I’m probably talking to people here whose own current and future government (does not matter whether Biden, Trump or Harris) states clearly that it’s NOT a genocide. So, my “let’s wait for the experts to classify it” view is not even as crazy as to the one of their government. But yeah… I don’t know where you are from… So, this is an accusation, too.
But whatever… I’ll keep describing what’s happening in Gaza without using that word, as long a it’s only a Genocide accusation.
It’s interesting that professionals who know about public international law are usually careful calling it genocide, because this is a complex topic, but random lemmy users with no experience are 100% sure (probably because they heard it from others).
I have no problem calling it genocide when it is actually classified as one. But sorry… I think, it’s just stupid to use this word as a buzzword.
German apologia for Zionism is really revolting.
Imagine, Netanyahu would actually build concentration camps or declare to kill all palestinians or explain that Jewish people are surpirior because of their blood and then conquer the whole middle east region?
I mean… Who do you compare him with in that case? You have already used the Hitler comparison, which is already a 100/100 on the “very bad person” ladder…
Gaza ghetto/Concentration Camp:
The UN summary of Gaza in 2020: "the apparent strategy of Israel is the indefinite warehousing of an unwanted population of 2 million Palestinians, whom it has confined to a narrow strip of land through its comprehensive 15-year-old air, land and sea blockade (with further restrictions by Egypt on the southern border of Gaza). Ban Ki-moon has called this political quarantining of the population a “collective punishment”, which is a serious breach of international law.
Jewish supremacy:
“Palestinian citizens of Israel, who comprise about 19% of the population, face many forms of institutionalized discrimination. In 2018, discrimination against Palestinians was crystallized in a constitutional law which, for the first time, enshrined Israel exclusively as the “nation state of the Jewish people”. The law also promotes the building of Jewish settlements and downgrades Arabic’s status as an official language”
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy
https://fmep.org/resource/the-vocabulary-of-oppression-jewish-supremacy-from-the-river-to-the-sea/
Expansionism
"The Torah not only designates all of “Greater Syria” for the people of Israel, but also commands them to conquer and settle this land. This region includes land stretching from Egypt to the Euphrates River, on both sides of the Great Rift Valley, including the Sinai Peninsula. "
https://www.etzion.org.il/en/tanakh/studies-tanakh/core-studies-tanakh/mishpatim-destined-borders-land-israel
“The deep-rooted perception of Eretz-Yisrael as a whole was not only found in the traditional Zionist maximalism of the Revisionist Herut (later Likud) camp, but increasingly gained ground in all the main political parties, including the traditionally pragmatic Labour Party. This maximalist concept of state frontiers was based on a Zionist political and military strategy (backed by a very powerful army equipped with nuclear weapons) which served as a means to essentially imperialist ends: the creation of a Middle East more favourable to a greatly enlarged and regionally dominant Jewish state.”
https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt18fs7dk?turn_away=true
So to your point Zionism is an ideology that uses religion to justify murder, industrialised slaughter, ghettoisation and colonial expansionism.
I recommend looking at the UN Human Rights Council Report which came out last year.
Report of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel
You wrote or copy-pasted a lot of stuff, but…
the first part is not about concentration camps.
the 2nd one is about terrible discrimination, not about what I wrote.
and the 3rd part is about a 2.000 years old book. Really? Some chapters in there probably explain in detail how many goats or sheep we need to exchange to solve a conflict…
I’m not sure, what you are trying to do… But if you really want to think that Netanyahu is pretty much Hitler and that it can’t be any worse, feel free to do so… I won’t stop you. I have a different opinion.
BTW: I don’t think, anyone uses spirituality to justify what’s happening in Gaza. They usually use the massacre in Isarel of last year as justification.
Hitler is Hitler.
Netanyahu is a Zionist fascist.
It’s clear you don’t want to challenge your beliefs. I find that a lot with Germans who convince themselves that supporting Israel is the right thing to do in spite of the mounting evidence.
This will be another shameful legacy of your country.
Do you want to challenge your beliefs?
Compared with others here, I think, I can actually understand the dilemma on both sides.
I hope, that Hamas loses power first and then Netanyahu. I think, this is the only way that can lead to peace in that region in the future. Otherwise, this will continue for even more decades. Hamas’ main motto is still the total destruction of Israel. And Netanyahu’s seddling strategy is also terrible if you want a solution.
But what’s your idea to solve this? It’s a complex conflict that is happening for decades and you and others act like it’s easy to solve it… If the terror organization Hamas keeps power, you can already put an event into your calendar when the next rockets will hit Israel… With other words: What’s YOUR strategy to get rid of Hamas?
No you are not a dispassionate observer. You are, unfortunately, just another transmission vector of Zionist propaganda.
To everyone outside the Western media bubble, Hamas is an anti -colonial movement much like the Viet Cong or the Irish Republicans. Saying " Hamas needs to be defeated" is saying the self determination of a people needs to be defeated which is essentially the Zionist position.
The problem with Israel isn’t limited to Netanyahu. Zionism has always dehumanised and delegitimised Palestinians, see them as terrorists and an enemy to be feared and attacked. This fear of difference is an element of Ur-fascism as defined by Umberto Eco.
Getting rid of the apartheid and occupation and Hamas no longer needs to exist. One state with equal rights for everyone.
Hamas has constantly advocated for the total destruction of Israel. That’s their main goal. I think, your view is that Netanyahu wants to conquer all the Palestine area? They want something similar. They want to conquer all the Israel area…
Hamas did not even attack the Israeli government last year. They attacked pretty much only civilians.
What do you call that? You use the crazy words (facist, apartheid, genocide, Hitler, …) quickly, but don’t agree that Hamas is a terror organization??? Seriously???
Hamas is a pain in the ass for Israel and also for the people in Gaza. They use their own people as human shields. They don’t even want to negotiate. They want to destroy Israel.
My view: Hamas in power is a guarantee that this will go on for many more decades.
Just curious because you wrote “dispassionate observer”… Do you think that you can put yourself in the place of both sides? Can you understand why Israel didn’t just stand still after the massacre last year? Can you understand that they would like to solve the Hamas problem once and for all (the HOW is of course always debatable) to not get attacked again?