One problem with this analysis is that while the far left is an issue on lemmy, when it comes to the broader electorate they’re a vanishing minority. So they’re just safely ignored by all parties.
The far right is in control of one of the two major parties.
They’re not equivalent. Trying to be a “Centrist” between them is putting yourself on the right wing.
Right wing extremism is destroying us. Left wing extremism could, hypothetically, destroy us, if it existed in any real form. But it doesn’t.
Fascists should not be negotiated with or tolerated. They should be excluded from decision making processes. It is perfectly fine (maybe even a moral necessity) to be tribal if your tribe is “no fascism”.
There’s no need to use weasel words like “tribalism” as if it’s this broad, over arching societal issue spanning multiple viewpoints. One group is the problem. Only one. Attacking that group is not tribalism. It’s self-defense.
I almost agree with you, but it lacks the view of how all of this became out of left side virtue signaling. Cancel culture (thought very much overblown in reality) truly created the far right of today. Obviously the far right is a real threat, ignoring how the far right of today came out of pointing the finger at people of the right and calling them racist homophobic incels for making a joke, all that did was force people, who maybe made a joke in bad taste, forced to be on the side of actual zenophobes. Now they truley are everything we claimed they were now, because that is the only side left that will have them.
Im not saying any of it wasnt warrented, its about understanding how we got here, and knowing that we cant keep doing it. You cant call half of the entire country racist gay bashers and find any solution outside of civil war. I dont want that do you? Because thats where its going, many people want to move towards the middle but a middle doesnt exist to move towards.
No. That’s quite identical to saying “black rights movements created the KKK”. Fascists will fash no matter what the progressive people do. The way to stop fascism from rising isn’t concessions in policy, it’s a total cancel of their presence in media and public spaces, by whatever means necessary.
You cant call half of the entire country racist gay bashers
I can damn right do it if they are. You can’t tolerate racism and homophobia just because you don’t wanna annoy the intolerants.
I dont want that do you? Because thats where its going
Maybe, hear me out, maybe, if we didn’t want fascists to start a civil war, we shouldn’t have allowed them on TV from the start, radicalising people against queer and women’s rights, we shouldn’t have allowed them to take control of social media, and we shouldn’t have allowed them to take control of institutions like the supreme court. That’s how you avoid fascism.
No. That’s quite identical to saying “black rights movements created the KKK”. Fascists will fash no matter what the progressive people do. The way to stop fascism from rising isn’t concessions in policy, it’s a total cancel of their presence in media and public spaces, by whatever means necessary.
I never said concessions in policy, I said that when you demonize people, you create an other side, people naturally form groups, now the other side is larger. Its like how anti vaxxers became a thing because we all joked about how they were dumb animals instead of ignoring them back in the early 2000’s. Back then anti vaxxing was truly just a meme that only a few people did, but we pointed and laughed, which created a platform for stupid people, and they used it to recruit more.
I can damn right do it if they are. You can’t tolerate racism and homophobia just because you don’t wanna annoy the intolerants.
You’re ignoring the entire rest of my argument so I cant really respond.
Maybe, hear me out, maybe, if we didn’t want fascists to start a civil war, we shouldn’t have allowed them on TV from the start, radicalizing people against queer and women’s rights, we shouldn’t have allowed them to take control of social media, and we shouldn’t have allowed them to take control of institutions like the supreme court. That’s how you avoid fascism.
100% agree, we shouldn’t have given hatred a platform, but how did they get it that platform? Was it maybe early 2010s cancel culture? Again id advise you to look into trevors axiom, humans are simple and easily manipulated, attacking a thing creates a platform for people to recruit from.
Yes the media did it, then we did it online everywhere, in our social circles, on facebook, endlessly. And while i recognize that its the media fault, i can also accept the role i played in it as a stupid teenager participating in it within my own circles.
Your second argument is just in such bad faith, i feel like I’m arguing with an angsty teen. I never said we give into what they want and let them run wild. I said we need to understand them and knock off the constant demonization or all you’re going to do is bolster their numbers, fight them without the endless ad hominem, argue against the idea and not the individual, stop labeling everyone you don’t like a facist, because when you do that you’re essentially just recruiting for actual facists by pushing more and more moderate people to them. I’m fairly certain at this point you still wont understand what I’m saying and you will come up with some antagonizing catch phrase in response so I’m done here, id hope you spend some time thinking on this, but it sounds like youve made up your mind.
One problem with this analysis is that while the far left is an issue on lemmy, when it comes to the broader electorate they’re a vanishing minority. So they’re just safely ignored by all parties.
The far right is in control of one of the two major parties.
They’re not equivalent. Trying to be a “Centrist” between them is putting yourself on the right wing.
I think your missing the point of my post. This tribalism is destroying us.
Right wing extremism is destroying us. Left wing extremism could, hypothetically, destroy us, if it existed in any real form. But it doesn’t.
Fascists should not be negotiated with or tolerated. They should be excluded from decision making processes. It is perfectly fine (maybe even a moral necessity) to be tribal if your tribe is “no fascism”.
There’s no need to use weasel words like “tribalism” as if it’s this broad, over arching societal issue spanning multiple viewpoints. One group is the problem. Only one. Attacking that group is not tribalism. It’s self-defense.
I almost agree with you, but it lacks the view of how all of this became out of left side virtue signaling. Cancel culture (thought very much overblown in reality) truly created the far right of today. Obviously the far right is a real threat, ignoring how the far right of today came out of pointing the finger at people of the right and calling them racist homophobic incels for making a joke, all that did was force people, who maybe made a joke in bad taste, forced to be on the side of actual zenophobes. Now they truley are everything we claimed they were now, because that is the only side left that will have them.
Im not saying any of it wasnt warrented, its about understanding how we got here, and knowing that we cant keep doing it. You cant call half of the entire country racist gay bashers and find any solution outside of civil war. I dont want that do you? Because thats where its going, many people want to move towards the middle but a middle doesnt exist to move towards.
No. That’s quite identical to saying “black rights movements created the KKK”. Fascists will fash no matter what the progressive people do. The way to stop fascism from rising isn’t concessions in policy, it’s a total cancel of their presence in media and public spaces, by whatever means necessary.
I can damn right do it if they are. You can’t tolerate racism and homophobia just because you don’t wanna annoy the intolerants.
Maybe, hear me out, maybe, if we didn’t want fascists to start a civil war, we shouldn’t have allowed them on TV from the start, radicalising people against queer and women’s rights, we shouldn’t have allowed them to take control of social media, and we shouldn’t have allowed them to take control of institutions like the supreme court. That’s how you avoid fascism.
I never said concessions in policy, I said that when you demonize people, you create an other side, people naturally form groups, now the other side is larger. Its like how anti vaxxers became a thing because we all joked about how they were dumb animals instead of ignoring them back in the early 2000’s. Back then anti vaxxing was truly just a meme that only a few people did, but we pointed and laughed, which created a platform for stupid people, and they used it to recruit more.
You’re ignoring the entire rest of my argument so I cant really respond.
100% agree, we shouldn’t have given hatred a platform, but how did they get it that platform? Was it maybe early 2010s cancel culture? Again id advise you to look into trevors axiom, humans are simple and easily manipulated, attacking a thing creates a platform for people to recruit from.
The fucking media did that, not a tiny group of mentally ill chronically online tumblr teenagers.
Your argument boils down to “look, if we just give the Nazis the sudetenland, they’ll stop”.
Yes the media did it, then we did it online everywhere, in our social circles, on facebook, endlessly. And while i recognize that its the media fault, i can also accept the role i played in it as a stupid teenager participating in it within my own circles.
Your second argument is just in such bad faith, i feel like I’m arguing with an angsty teen. I never said we give into what they want and let them run wild. I said we need to understand them and knock off the constant demonization or all you’re going to do is bolster their numbers, fight them without the endless ad hominem, argue against the idea and not the individual, stop labeling everyone you don’t like a facist, because when you do that you’re essentially just recruiting for actual facists by pushing more and more moderate people to them. I’m fairly certain at this point you still wont understand what I’m saying and you will come up with some antagonizing catch phrase in response so I’m done here, id hope you spend some time thinking on this, but it sounds like youve made up your mind.
THEY ARE LITERALLY FASCISTS. IT’S NOT HYPERBOLE. THEY WAVE NAZI FLAGS.
Jesus christ you milquetoast fuck, wake up and smell the crisis.