They said industrial farming is more effective per manhour at food production.
And it is. There are obviously further complexities to have everything else in a modern society, but that doesn’t change the fact that even modern productivity increases aren’t decreasing work loads for some reason
It was in response to my saying that you cannot support a large population via hunting and gathering. You need to work harder than that. It is only more food per hour of work if you are talking about a small population. There is a point of diminishing returns and then it gets harder and harder to feed a growing population via hunting and gathering.
Nobody is proposing we switch to hunter-gatherer jobs, we’re saying that the jobs we’re currently doing are producing extreme excess and that excess is either wasted (fast fashion landfills, dramatic food waste) or just hoarded by the capitalist class.
We can support our current population with our current technology and work a lot less.
Anyone that is unemployed could be taking some of your work hours. Many of our jobs are redundant. A different economy can be created where we all work way less than we do while retaining our quality of life.
To say we can’t is to buy into the propaganda that we need Musks and Bezos’ or we’d be subsistence farming. There are other things in between.
This is a bad faith argument or complete misunderstanding of the point and in either case the conversation can’t continue productively.
The point is that a democratic economy where workers own the value of their production would NECESSARILY improve wealth for those workers. Nobody is employed as a charitable act, you’re employed if and only if you produce more value than it takes to hire you.
And my point is that farming is hard work even if it’s only 20 hours a week and why would enough people choose to do hard work when they can do something less physically taxing for the same amount of pay?
I’ve lost your point here but frankly I don’t care to find it. You’re like the final boss of capitalist realism in this whole thread. You can’t seem to imagine any other way.
A cooperative economy is better than a competitive economy is my assertion and I’ll leave it at that.
They didn’t say we could.
They said industrial farming is more effective per manhour at food production.
And it is. There are obviously further complexities to have everything else in a modern society, but that doesn’t change the fact that even modern productivity increases aren’t decreasing work loads for some reason
It was in response to my saying that you cannot support a large population via hunting and gathering. You need to work harder than that. It is only more food per hour of work if you are talking about a small population. There is a point of diminishing returns and then it gets harder and harder to feed a growing population via hunting and gathering.
Nobody is proposing we switch to hunter-gatherer jobs, we’re saying that the jobs we’re currently doing are producing extreme excess and that excess is either wasted (fast fashion landfills, dramatic food waste) or just hoarded by the capitalist class.
We can support our current population with our current technology and work a lot less.
Anyone that is unemployed could be taking some of your work hours. Many of our jobs are redundant. A different economy can be created where we all work way less than we do while retaining our quality of life.
To say we can’t is to buy into the propaganda that we need Musks and Bezos’ or we’d be subsistence farming. There are other things in between.
Why would farmers in impoverished countries want to retain their way of life?
This is a bad faith argument or complete misunderstanding of the point and in either case the conversation can’t continue productively.
The point is that a democratic economy where workers own the value of their production would NECESSARILY improve wealth for those workers. Nobody is employed as a charitable act, you’re employed if and only if you produce more value than it takes to hire you.
And my point is that farming is hard work even if it’s only 20 hours a week and why would enough people choose to do hard work when they can do something less physically taxing for the same amount of pay?
I fail to see how that same thing doesn’t apply today? Why do farmers work more than 20 hours instead with the same lack of benefit?
Because people need jobs to survive and in a lot of places those are the jobs available for people with no education. What a strange question.
I’ve lost your point here but frankly I don’t care to find it. You’re like the final boss of capitalist realism in this whole thread. You can’t seem to imagine any other way.
A cooperative economy is better than a competitive economy is my assertion and I’ll leave it at that.
Or… I think there is a huge gulf in between what you want and the capitalist society of today and it doesn’t have to be either/or.
So many people seem to think we live in a black and white world…