The latest New York Times/Siena College surveys show Vice President Harris with considerable advantages among suburban and young voters.
  • The Harris campaign is showing new strength in must-win states ahead of the party’s convention.
  • In Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, Harris leads Trump 50% to 46% among likely voters.
  • It’s a reflection of the continued reset of the 2024 race after Biden’s exit.
  • @[email protected]English
    27•1 month ago

    In Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, Harris leads Trump 50% to 46% among likely voters.

    That’s within the margin of error. That doesn’t really count as a lead.

    • themeatbridge
      40•1 month ago

      No, but Trump’s leads were also within the margin of error, so it’s encouraging to see a swing, even if it might just be noise.

    • Flying Squid
      20•1 month ago

      She’s only been campaigning for a few weeks. The DNC hasn’t even happened yet. I would call this pretty phenomenal.

      • Irremarkable
        13•1 month ago

        Most people have a really, really awful understanding of how statistics work.

          • @frog_brawler
            -2•1 month ago

            We don’t know the sample size; so we don’t know the margin of error.

            • Irremarkable
              13•1 month ago

              I mean, click a couple links and it’s right there

              MI: 619 PA: 693 WI: 661 All of registered voters

              Using the amount of total registered voters in each respective state and a 95% CI, we get the following margins of error MI: ±3.939% PA: ±3.723% WI: ±3.811%

              Depending on the exact lead (NYT only shows round percents, not specific numbers for each response), all of those are potentially within the top end of that margin of error.

              Am I trying to claim that a swing from being down by ~4% to being up by ~4% means nothing and is indicative of nothing? Of course not. But man, most people really do not at all understand how statistics work, and I really wish people would stop talking out of their ass about it.

              • @frog_brawler
                2•1 month ago

                So which links did you click? The one that goes to NYT is paywalled.

              • Logi
                1•1 month ago

                If I remember this correctly, the square of the error for the sum of (or difference between) two independent measurements is the sum of the squares of the individual errors. Gauss something.

                That would make the error for the 8 point swing be sqrt(2×3.8²) or about 5.4. So at least the swing is significant in each state.

                Also, the error for the average of 3 variables is sqrt(e1²+e2²+e3²)/3 or 2.2 so the average lead in the 3 states is significant.

                But we can’t make a significant claim about the lead in each state.

              • @[email protected]
                1•1 month ago

                It’s easy. When Kamala is down we say that polls don’t matter as much they used to, but when she’s up polls are obviously right. The margin of error is just a thing we use after the fact to justify whether the polls are useless (Kamala losing) or absolutely correct (Kamala winning)

      • @[email protected]
        5•1 month ago

        Are they the same people?

        You are aware that different people can think different things, right?

    • @[email protected]English
      9•1 month ago

      Maybe not, but it’s encouraging! Harris/Walz are stoking enthusiasm because they want to actually improve people’s lives, not just repeat the same tired culture-war bullshit…

    • @frog_brawler
      4•1 month ago

      You don’t know the margin of error unless you know the sample size. I didn’t see the sample size mentioned in the article.