If it’s a normal year, you are among friends who know you’re not serious or you are actively at a rally/wearing pro Harris merch, by all means, give the democratic party some much deserved roasting. On the internet, among strangers, months before an election where the state of American democracy is under literal threat… at best it makes you seem tone deaf, at worst it makes you sound like a MAGA bro or Russian agent trying to poison the idea of voting blue. Context matters.
This is the same logic we were fed when a minority of us were calling for Biden to step down and we were told that there was not enough time for anyone except Biden because, checks notes, fate of democracy. All I’m hearing from this comment is shut up and get in line.
There’s a difference between calls to action to improve the party/candidate to invigorate Dem voters and putting the party/candidate down implicitly boosting the competition. Also, while I was among those wishing Biden would drop out, it was also very fair to be scared that that would backfire. That it worked out as well as it seems to have was not a guarantee. I don’t fault anyone for reacting badly to such a dramatic strategy change.
Agreed, but my point is that neither are allowed on Lemmy. People asking for Biden to step down were downvoted. Memes about Biden’s age were definitely downvoted. Anything that even sounds like criticism of the left is not tolerated.
We can all see that this shit need radical change but every four years we’re supposed to vote for the lesser of two evils. As though this system has a chance of self-correcting from within. A year from now, we’ll be back to complaining about the same issues. I’m probably as progressive as most of the users on this site, but seeing all this pro-establishment shit makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Mods allowing a post to stay up doesn’t mean it’s tolerated by the community. But we’re getting into semantics at this point. I just wish I could find an online community that didn’t lean so hard in one direction. Everywhere I go is extremely right-wing or left-wing. These online spaces just parrot the party talking points.
That is honestly a fair concern. I think a lot of the more dangerous extremism is born of segregated or heavily polarized communities online that is radocalizing people. As someone on the left, I definitely see that way more clearly with extremists on the right, but it would be arrogant and smug of me to suggest the left isn’t likewise influenced. I don’t know how to fix, though. When people are free to go to where they please to participate in conversations and avoid places they don’t feel welcome or may even be hostile toward them, it is not shocking so many places lean into one ideology or another.
Well said. It’s a problem that we should all be able to at least recognize, but I think people are too focused on their team winning. Trump madness intensified the problem, but this has been developing for quite some time now.
Until we get rid of plurality/first-past-the-post voting, voting for the (perceived) lesser of two evils is more or less the reality and only reasonable take for the vast majority of Americans. That even goes for conservatives. With plurality voting, it inevitably leads to two party systems.
And on a macro scale, the major parties are only going to shift ideologically where they think that that shift gets them the plurality of votes. That usually means that either party is unlikely to directly serve their more extreme ends of their respective wings. Democrats are almost certainly not going to get more progressive, simply because progressives have no where else to go. Expecting them to get more progressive without incentive is unreasonable and just not going to happen.
That fucking sucks, but that is the reality of our voting system. So if you’re tired of that shit like I am, advocate for and vote for officials that are advocates of voting system reforms where you can. That’s the only way to change this pattern. And there is momentum to push to and even already adoption of other systems like Ranked Choice (my least favorite alternative system for single seat elections, but definitely an improvement). But while we are currently stuck with plurality voting, you will be forced to live with the consequences of that reality. Part of that is that you ought to vote for your preferred major party candidate in single seat elections that truly matter, even if it’s just the lesser of two evils.
This is a great comment and I agree with everything you said. At the risk of sounding contradictory, let me state that I’m not arguing against voting for democrats. Sure, my hopes for the democratic party continues to dwindle as I get older, but the cost of an afternoon to cast a ballot isn’t much to ask for. And (I feel like I have to say this on Lemmy) the Republican party is a non-starter. So we both agree on those points.
My issue is with the obvious bias in political posts or political memes (see: literally all of [email protected]). Lemmy has decided on a simple formula: pro-democrat post=upvote, anti-republican post=upvote, everything else=downvote. Doesn’t matter if the article linked is any good or if the meme is funny. This community is completely unable to acknowledge the flaws of the democratic party because that hurts “our team” and somehow makes you a republican.
It’s an election year, “Shut up and get in line” is actually a completely valid take right now considering how fate of democracy is actually a fucking thing that’s on the line right now.
And I feel like “shut up and get in line” is especially applicable after y’all got what you wanted and Biden stepped down.
Continuing to bitch when there’s a country to save is just making it look like you didn’t want an honest discussion leading to an unprecedented shift in political maneuvering, you just wanted something to bitch about.
To allegorize a quote from a historical commentator,
“Being at war with the pope is whatever, you’d be surprised how often that happens, but if he dies and you keep fighting, well now you’re at war with the catholic church itself, and that is gonna end very badly for you.”
This is a completely disingenuous response that I keep hearing. Yes, it being an election year intensifies the problem. But Lemmy’s intolerance to criticism of anything left-wing pre-dates 2024. Go back a year ago and look at the posts on [email protected] . Same shit different day.
The fact that everyone is paying attention to politics right now actually makes it a great time to call the democrats on their shit in the hopes that they will at least promise to make more foundational changes. But that’s not going to happen: we continue to settle for the status quo.
If it’s a normal year, you are among friends who know you’re not serious or you are actively at a rally/wearing pro Harris merch, by all means, give the democratic party some much deserved roasting. On the internet, among strangers, months before an election where the state of American democracy is under literal threat… at best it makes you seem tone deaf, at worst it makes you sound like a MAGA bro or Russian agent trying to poison the idea of voting blue. Context matters.
This is the same logic we were fed when a minority of us were calling for Biden to step down and we were told that there was not enough time for anyone except Biden because, checks notes, fate of democracy. All I’m hearing from this comment is shut up and get in line.
There’s a difference between calls to action to improve the party/candidate to invigorate Dem voters and putting the party/candidate down implicitly boosting the competition. Also, while I was among those wishing Biden would drop out, it was also very fair to be scared that that would backfire. That it worked out as well as it seems to have was not a guarantee. I don’t fault anyone for reacting badly to such a dramatic strategy change.
Agreed, but my point is that neither are allowed on Lemmy. People asking for Biden to step down were downvoted. Memes about Biden’s age were definitely downvoted. Anything that even sounds like criticism of the left is not tolerated.
We can all see that this shit need radical change but every four years we’re supposed to vote for the lesser of two evils. As though this system has a chance of self-correcting from within. A year from now, we’ll be back to complaining about the same issues. I’m probably as progressive as most of the users on this site, but seeing all this pro-establishment shit makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Being downvoted isn’t not being allowed on Lemmy.
Sometimes I do wish karma accumulated and there was a negative karma limit though…
👉👈
Then go back to reddit.
Mods allowing a post to stay up doesn’t mean it’s tolerated by the community. But we’re getting into semantics at this point. I just wish I could find an online community that didn’t lean so hard in one direction. Everywhere I go is extremely right-wing or left-wing. These online spaces just parrot the party talking points.
You are literally being allowed to stay on Lemmy.
Everyone doesn’t have to agree with what you say though.
That is honestly a fair concern. I think a lot of the more dangerous extremism is born of segregated or heavily polarized communities online that is radocalizing people. As someone on the left, I definitely see that way more clearly with extremists on the right, but it would be arrogant and smug of me to suggest the left isn’t likewise influenced. I don’t know how to fix, though. When people are free to go to where they please to participate in conversations and avoid places they don’t feel welcome or may even be hostile toward them, it is not shocking so many places lean into one ideology or another.
Well said. It’s a problem that we should all be able to at least recognize, but I think people are too focused on their team winning. Trump madness intensified the problem, but this has been developing for quite some time now.
Until we get rid of plurality/first-past-the-post voting, voting for the (perceived) lesser of two evils is more or less the reality and only reasonable take for the vast majority of Americans. That even goes for conservatives. With plurality voting, it inevitably leads to two party systems.
And on a macro scale, the major parties are only going to shift ideologically where they think that that shift gets them the plurality of votes. That usually means that either party is unlikely to directly serve their more extreme ends of their respective wings. Democrats are almost certainly not going to get more progressive, simply because progressives have no where else to go. Expecting them to get more progressive without incentive is unreasonable and just not going to happen.
That fucking sucks, but that is the reality of our voting system. So if you’re tired of that shit like I am, advocate for and vote for officials that are advocates of voting system reforms where you can. That’s the only way to change this pattern. And there is momentum to push to and even already adoption of other systems like Ranked Choice (my least favorite alternative system for single seat elections, but definitely an improvement). But while we are currently stuck with plurality voting, you will be forced to live with the consequences of that reality. Part of that is that you ought to vote for your preferred major party candidate in single seat elections that truly matter, even if it’s just the lesser of two evils.
This is a great comment and I agree with everything you said. At the risk of sounding contradictory, let me state that I’m not arguing against voting for democrats. Sure, my hopes for the democratic party continues to dwindle as I get older, but the cost of an afternoon to cast a ballot isn’t much to ask for. And (I feel like I have to say this on Lemmy) the Republican party is a non-starter. So we both agree on those points.
My issue is with the obvious bias in political posts or political memes (see: literally all of [email protected]). Lemmy has decided on a simple formula: pro-democrat post=upvote, anti-republican post=upvote, everything else=downvote. Doesn’t matter if the article linked is any good or if the meme is funny. This community is completely unable to acknowledge the flaws of the democratic party because that hurts “our team” and somehow makes you a republican.
It’s an election year, “Shut up and get in line” is actually a completely valid take right now considering how fate of democracy is actually a fucking thing that’s on the line right now.
And I feel like “shut up and get in line” is especially applicable after y’all got what you wanted and Biden stepped down.
Continuing to bitch when there’s a country to save is just making it look like you didn’t want an honest discussion leading to an unprecedented shift in political maneuvering, you just wanted something to bitch about.
To allegorize a quote from a historical commentator,
“Being at war with the pope is whatever, you’d be surprised how often that happens, but if he dies and you keep fighting, well now you’re at war with the catholic church itself, and that is gonna end very badly for you.”
This is a completely disingenuous response that I keep hearing. Yes, it being an election year intensifies the problem. But Lemmy’s intolerance to criticism of anything left-wing pre-dates 2024. Go back a year ago and look at the posts on [email protected] . Same shit different day.
The fact that everyone is paying attention to politics right now actually makes it a great time to call the democrats on their shit in the hopes that they will at least promise to make more foundational changes. But that’s not going to happen: we continue to settle for the status quo.