Thing is those criticisms also mostly apply to FF7.
Disconnect between combat and exploration? I see that for Zelda, but ff7 goes harder, with a random encounter jolting you into a different game engine for combat.
To much time in combat waiting while nothing happens? FF7 battle system is mostly waiting for turns to come to with lots of dead time.
Exploration largely locked to narrative allowing it? Yeah, FF7 had that too, with rare optional destinations a very prescribed order and forced stops. It opens up late in the game.
The video generally laments that OOT was more a playable story than an organic gameplay experience, and FF7 can be characterized the same way. Which can be enjoyable, but it can be a bit annoying when the game half of things is awkward and bogs things down a bit. Particularly if you are getting subjected to repeated “spectacle” (the slow opening of chests in oot, the battle swirl, camera swoops, and oh man the summons in ff7…)
They both hit some rough growing pains in the industry. OOT went all in on 3D before designers really got a good idea on how to manage that. FF7 had so much opportunity for spectacle open up that they sometimes let that get in the way. Also the generally untextured characters with three design variations that are vastly different (field, battle, and pre rendered) as that team try to find their footing with visual design in a 3d market.
You’re correct on all fronts, but I guess what I would point out is that those design elements were a staple of the FF franchise long before 7. It was another turn based strategy role playing game in a series of turn based strategy role playing games. With OOT you had a real time action adventure franchise with a game using design elements you’d expect from…well, from a turn based strategy role playing game xD
That’s where I have issues with OOT in hindsight. It stumbled in executing on its own self-image, whereas FF7 did a better of job of understanding itself
I think turn based is fine and in fact I like. However, when no one has a turn it’s annoying to sit around while nothing happens as the timer keeps ticking. Also, to make it “active”, the turn timer doesn’t stop when you hit the menu. If you delay your action the enemy may get to take their turn, just because you neglected to navigate the menu. I think ATB is actually the worst of both worlds, would prefer either turn based or action RPG rather than being forced to navigate a menu in some facsimile of ‘real time’.
Where FF7 kind of went south from a gameplay perspective compared to 6 was that in 6, summons were a brief flash. In FF7, by contrast, for example Knights of the round would “treat” you to an 80 second spectacle, which was cool the first couple of times, but then just a tedious waste of time. Generally rinse and repeat this for any action that was pretty quick in FF6 and before but a slow spectacle in FF7, with no real option to speed up those animations you had already seen a dozen times that wore out their welcome long ago. Just like that stupid chest opening in OOT.
Anyway, I did enjoy FF7, but the “game” half was kind of iffy.
Thing is those criticisms also mostly apply to FF7.
Disconnect between combat and exploration? I see that for Zelda, but ff7 goes harder, with a random encounter jolting you into a different game engine for combat.
To much time in combat waiting while nothing happens? FF7 battle system is mostly waiting for turns to come to with lots of dead time.
Exploration largely locked to narrative allowing it? Yeah, FF7 had that too, with rare optional destinations a very prescribed order and forced stops. It opens up late in the game.
The video generally laments that OOT was more a playable story than an organic gameplay experience, and FF7 can be characterized the same way. Which can be enjoyable, but it can be a bit annoying when the game half of things is awkward and bogs things down a bit. Particularly if you are getting subjected to repeated “spectacle” (the slow opening of chests in oot, the battle swirl, camera swoops, and oh man the summons in ff7…)
They both hit some rough growing pains in the industry. OOT went all in on 3D before designers really got a good idea on how to manage that. FF7 had so much opportunity for spectacle open up that they sometimes let that get in the way. Also the generally untextured characters with three design variations that are vastly different (field, battle, and pre rendered) as that team try to find their footing with visual design in a 3d market.
You’re correct on all fronts, but I guess what I would point out is that those design elements were a staple of the FF franchise long before 7. It was another turn based strategy role playing game in a series of turn based strategy role playing games. With OOT you had a real time action adventure franchise with a game using design elements you’d expect from…well, from a turn based strategy role playing game xD
That’s where I have issues with OOT in hindsight. It stumbled in executing on its own self-image, whereas FF7 did a better of job of understanding itself
I think turn based is fine and in fact I like. However, when no one has a turn it’s annoying to sit around while nothing happens as the timer keeps ticking. Also, to make it “active”, the turn timer doesn’t stop when you hit the menu. If you delay your action the enemy may get to take their turn, just because you neglected to navigate the menu. I think ATB is actually the worst of both worlds, would prefer either turn based or action RPG rather than being forced to navigate a menu in some facsimile of ‘real time’.
Where FF7 kind of went south from a gameplay perspective compared to 6 was that in 6, summons were a brief flash. In FF7, by contrast, for example Knights of the round would “treat” you to an 80 second spectacle, which was cool the first couple of times, but then just a tedious waste of time. Generally rinse and repeat this for any action that was pretty quick in FF6 and before but a slow spectacle in FF7, with no real option to speed up those animations you had already seen a dozen times that wore out their welcome long ago. Just like that stupid chest opening in OOT.
Anyway, I did enjoy FF7, but the “game” half was kind of iffy.