honestly, if they are COSMETIC only, I don’t mind micro transactions. It’s when you are able to get an advantage over the f2p(f2p being players who don’t buy further than the base game in this instance) players that I have an issue with it.
I would argue in some games MT’s are almost a requirement, like the sims has a valid argument for having microtransactions with the community store. (I don’t agree with their predatory DLC/Expansion pack nonsense though).
My rule of thumb is, if the DLC or Microtransaction is something that should be base game, I don’t think it should exist as an upcharge. Single player games to boost your level to the next level? that should be something that is available as base game via a dev console. Wallhack/god mode? should be available as a cheat/dev console. A party pink pinata hat in a game that is a serious shooter? Yea that can be a microtransaction. it’s not something that should be in the original set of files in the game.
I don’t think many people actually have issues with Microtransactions, they have an issue with how hard companies are currently abusing that system.
I’d argue Capcom is the biggest threat to Monster Hunter being fun, since it’s been years and they still haven’t figured out how to do it, but I digress…
I never said you can’t have Community armor unlocks, and I can’t think of a single game that I’ve played out there that has actively removed quest rewards From the game when they added the microtransaction system. The only thing I’ve seen is an increase in items available on the game via the micro transaction system.
Then again I haven’t really played the monster hunter games either, I never found them appealing
the alternative is the content just /not/ being there period though. A studio isn’t going to just supply the content for free, by having the MT’s there it’s increasing content to a game. The studios are abusing it sure, but just don’t buy it. I’ve never once spent money on any of my games for a MT that should have been base game. I have to say I haven’t had any issue with it. It’s there for the people who want to throw money away, and as long as it isn’t impacting me, I don’t care. I would rather have the option available for people to use it, then no option at all.
At the end of the day, Money talks, the studios that are abusing it are doing so because people are willing to throw money away like that. A better solution is to just not partake in the game, let the people who throw money away do their thing, just don’t buy those types of games IMO
That’s just it, you have more items in the games with microtransactions than what you had originally.
At the end of the day you gain more items by having the system in place meaning you have more content, now at the end of the day it’s optional content usually and by all means you don’t need it but to say that this content would have been in the game regardless just isn’t true.
I’m going to use Call of Duty as an example because that is what I saw microtransactions in the most growing up, and even that didn’t start until the I think it was ghosts(?)
they still provide standard Cosmetics that you can put on your guns, there’s still supplying your standard skins and now you have the option to purchase more skins, that is content that they would not have added to the game otherwise, it wasn’t until they introduced that microtransaction style system that most the options hit the table
Hell RuneScape even had microtransactions, and that games 23 years old now(granted it’s a hybrid F2P). You need to purchase in game currency to be able to do specific things and afford some of the items
I’m glad you feel this way I guess, but before you were born and well into the PS3 and 360 gen, games were still releasing with tons of cosmetic unlocks.
The RPG leveling system of Modern Warfare and the push to tie in game unlocks to your online progression dovetailed with selling skins and cosmetics across the industry. If you were a gamer on the PS2 and the 360 era the difference was like night and day. It’s why people were bowled over when games like Spiderman included so many costumes because the pressure to monetize these would normally be massive.
But somehow, they included dozens of unique designs and outfits without it bankrupting the company. Just like the decades of games prior to the DLC era had. Like magic.
I might have to look into the older game systems I guess i did indeed miss a few of the old school systems, It’s not like I missed most of the gaming era though, my first PC I ever used was a Windows 96, then an XP which I fell in love with (gearhead garage is still one of the best mechanic game you can find[but you’ll have to virtualize it for it to run], same with flight sim 04 and train simulator 1 in terms of simulators). and I grew up with every playstation and nintendo(which I now boycott) product made so far. Basically every system I’ve used has had the ability to buy DLC or expansion packs though, with the exception of the ps1/2, I guess I just don’t see how thats that much different from the current day MT’s. buy it once in bulk via an additional disk with a serial key, or buy it individually, but I can’t say I remember any of my games giving the amount of content that games now have without any extra cost. It’s always been either super basic cosmetic customization, or a paid DLC
I just haven’t had that experience with the games I’ve played. It’s always been the opposite for me. Maybe it was for the best. Every once and awhile I boot up my ps2 cause thats the oldest system i still carry, but like the simplicity of that platform just doesn’t do it, the nostalgic feel can only go so far.
Just wanna throw it out there that the Monster Hunter series is a perfect example of in game free content becoming microtransactions in just a few years.
Old MH games had all cosmetic items as free event quest rewards, where you’d get a unique and fun battle to play, and a cosmetic reward for winning. No paid DLC even available to buy. MH Rise (the newest game) has 221 paid cosmetic items listed on their site. That number is not including bundles, soundtracks, character edit vouchers, or the expansion (Sunbreak) itself.
$60 game, $40 expansion, and 200+ paid cosmetics that would instead be free in earlier games in the series.
I have to apologize in advance, cuz I haven’t played a monster hunter game since the PS2, I started playing world but I just didn’t like it. That being said I know the PS2 version of Monster Hunter didn’t have a whole lot(in terms of cosmetics) but again it’s PS2. And I know that monster hunter world had some items available, and that rise is where it apparently was really hit with microtransactions. But from what I understand with monster hunter rise they gave the base cosmetic sets that they normally would have gave with the game, they just offered the paid expansion for the additional skins. Now being as I never actually played rise could be dead wrong on that but Google searching it seems to have given me the same answer.
Something noteworthy is that’s just quests for equipment. In contrast, there’s only 37 event quests (all event quests are free) in Rise that offer any unique item reward, and 23 of those quests give equipment.
Giving a very conservative estimate with that all in mind, I think it’s safe to say that GU had a good five times more free dlc rewards than Rise does.
Honestly stopped reading here because this is how it all started. Motherfucking horse armor was the very first paid cosmetic dlc, and it’s only gotten worse. Publishers will keep pushing the line for what is acceptable for squeezing money out of players. We have to push back at every turn, otherwise debacles like overwatch 2 will keep happening.
look at what else it has given the field though. Since that was created, user mod stores have become further involved, paid mod workshops and free mod workshops have sprouted up. Cosmetic’s that for the longest time never was even thought of are now sprung up. Character creation has been re-invented basically. None of this would have happened if it continued to be a one-off price. Honestly online servers wouldn’t be lasting as long either as no company will run a game once the profit margin stagnates.
The problem at hand is not microtransactions, it’s consumers willingness to put up with/buy bullshit that shouldn’t be one
This spoken like someone who never experienced mods and entire unlicensed expansions to games being made well before DLC was a thing. I’m sorry but again, this is counterfactual to the reality of decades of PC gaming prior to the launch of the Playstation and Xbox stores where everything was locked down and customization was turned into DLC.
I still can’t believe we sell fucking skins for guns. It’s so callously exploitative.
I started with the ps1(unless you include XP as “gaming” lol) , I can’t give information on what was before that, but if the gaming prior to that is anything compared to what was on the PS1 I’m not holding my breath on the amount of stuff that was actually included in games, but you peaked my interest so if you have examples of games that went above and beyond and gave more content than today’s styled games that have microtransactions I’m definitely all ears I’d love to look into it.
Travelling, but start by looking up Doom wads and Duke Nukem Build engine mods.
These were so plentiful they were put into compilations, and the best were even repackaged with the game in later releases.
Again, tons of playformers and fps titles would previously offer characters as unlocks as well as customization equipment. The Tekken series up through 5 had SO MUCH GEAR. Virtual Fighter up to VF 4 EVO. Fighting games were actually huge with this, and only Soul Calibur seems to have kept it around a bit. They still sell customizatipn packs I believe, but they offer FAR more out of the box than average.
Could list more but unfortunately about to lose signal.
sorry, I am just now realizing I misread your post. I thought you had meant first party content when I originally read the reply. Yea I agree that there are a far good amount of fan made mods and content, it’s still prevailed into the current field. I love when games launch with steam workshop support. I disagree that that content doesn’t exist anymore though. I still play quite a few games that have a store system and have a functional mod workshop on the side.
I do agree that some companies are lowering their access to their API services, or having that as a secondary thought, but thankfully they aren’t at the point where they just won’t allow for third party content period. Well mostly anyway, there are a few oddities out there that have cheat software in place that won’t allow it but thankfully those are few and far between. I’m currently struggling against the urge to mod my elden ring run myself, because I know that trips the multiplayer AC which will remove networking features.
I did also mean first party content. To my point though was that popular mods were often also rolled into titles as officially sanctioned expansions later on. But first party titles also featured significant amounts of unlockable and customizable content. This didn’t begin with the monetization era.
I feel like gear progression is massively underrated. I love to dress up with my muscley rpg man, and make him look cooler and more awesome as he gets stronger. I don’t want the best cosmetics locked behind a paywall. In MMOs it also just murders any respect/cred you get from having awesome gear that needed you to clear an epic raid or similar.
I get the whole cosmetics thing for “free to pay” e-sport-esc games though, where there’s not really any gear progression
Fully agree, I like gear progression in games, its been a bit since ive played one that relied on it but, it added stuff to do. I’m not saying that system shouldn’t exist as well. I also can’t think of any games that used that system that removed it when adding the store.
Assassin’s Creed is the best example I can think of. It added a store to literally buy gear. Also see like every MMO. This one is more of a reach, but I’d also say something like Hunt: Showdown falls victim to this, as it would be awesome if you could see a hunter and know their “power level” by the cosmetics.
Horizon, both ZD and FW, are a modern example of having gear progression that exists and isn’t ruined by microtransactions
honestly, if they are COSMETIC only, I don’t mind micro transactions. It’s when you are able to get an advantage over the f2p(f2p being players who don’t buy further than the base game in this instance) players that I have an issue with it.
I would argue in some games MT’s are almost a requirement, like the sims has a valid argument for having microtransactions with the community store. (I don’t agree with their predatory DLC/Expansion pack nonsense though).
My rule of thumb is, if the DLC or Microtransaction is something that should be base game, I don’t think it should exist as an upcharge. Single player games to boost your level to the next level? that should be something that is available as base game via a dev console. Wallhack/god mode? should be available as a cheat/dev console. A party pink pinata hat in a game that is a serious shooter? Yea that can be a microtransaction. it’s not something that should be in the original set of files in the game.
I don’t think many people actually have issues with Microtransactions, they have an issue with how hard companies are currently abusing that system.
You are the threat to games like Monster Hunter being fun and having community armpr unlocks for free.
This exact goddamn attitude is why execs think things like the costume selection in Spider-man on PS4 is a waated monetization opportunity.
I’d argue Capcom is the biggest threat to Monster Hunter being fun, since it’s been years and they still haven’t figured out how to do it, but I digress…
I never said you can’t have Community armor unlocks, and I can’t think of a single game that I’ve played out there that has actively removed quest rewards From the game when they added the microtransaction system. The only thing I’ve seen is an increase in items available on the game via the micro transaction system.
Then again I haven’t really played the monster hunter games either, I never found them appealing
You’re not getting that the microtransaction system replaced free unlocks in most devlopments.
Fighting games used to let you unlock costumes through gameplay. Dozens of them per character.
Now you buy sets of 5 for $12.
No because that slippery slope is how we got to current day microtransactions.
the alternative is the content just /not/ being there period though. A studio isn’t going to just supply the content for free, by having the MT’s there it’s increasing content to a game. The studios are abusing it sure, but just don’t buy it. I’ve never once spent money on any of my games for a MT that should have been base game. I have to say I haven’t had any issue with it. It’s there for the people who want to throw money away, and as long as it isn’t impacting me, I don’t care. I would rather have the option available for people to use it, then no option at all.
At the end of the day, Money talks, the studios that are abusing it are doing so because people are willing to throw money away like that. A better solution is to just not partake in the game, let the people who throw money away do their thing, just don’t buy those types of games IMO
Somehow it existed for decades prior to DLC and online shops existing.
The Timesplitters series was practically founded on having so many characters and variants to unlock.
This argument just doesn’t hold water.
That’s just it, you have more items in the games with microtransactions than what you had originally.
At the end of the day you gain more items by having the system in place meaning you have more content, now at the end of the day it’s optional content usually and by all means you don’t need it but to say that this content would have been in the game regardless just isn’t true.
I’m going to use Call of Duty as an example because that is what I saw microtransactions in the most growing up, and even that didn’t start until the I think it was ghosts(?)
they still provide standard Cosmetics that you can put on your guns, there’s still supplying your standard skins and now you have the option to purchase more skins, that is content that they would not have added to the game otherwise, it wasn’t until they introduced that microtransaction style system that most the options hit the table
Hell RuneScape even had microtransactions, and that games 23 years old now(granted it’s a hybrid F2P). You need to purchase in game currency to be able to do specific things and afford some of the items
Sorry man, this is just counterfactual.
I’m glad you feel this way I guess, but before you were born and well into the PS3 and 360 gen, games were still releasing with tons of cosmetic unlocks.
The RPG leveling system of Modern Warfare and the push to tie in game unlocks to your online progression dovetailed with selling skins and cosmetics across the industry. If you were a gamer on the PS2 and the 360 era the difference was like night and day. It’s why people were bowled over when games like Spiderman included so many costumes because the pressure to monetize these would normally be massive.
But somehow, they included dozens of unique designs and outfits without it bankrupting the company. Just like the decades of games prior to the DLC era had. Like magic.
I might have to look into the older game systems I guess i did indeed miss a few of the old school systems, It’s not like I missed most of the gaming era though, my first PC I ever used was a Windows 96, then an XP which I fell in love with (gearhead garage is still one of the best mechanic game you can find[but you’ll have to virtualize it for it to run], same with flight sim 04 and train simulator 1 in terms of simulators). and I grew up with every playstation and nintendo(which I now boycott) product made so far. Basically every system I’ve used has had the ability to buy DLC or expansion packs though, with the exception of the ps1/2, I guess I just don’t see how thats that much different from the current day MT’s. buy it once in bulk via an additional disk with a serial key, or buy it individually, but I can’t say I remember any of my games giving the amount of content that games now have without any extra cost. It’s always been either super basic cosmetic customization, or a paid DLC
I just haven’t had that experience with the games I’ve played. It’s always been the opposite for me. Maybe it was for the best. Every once and awhile I boot up my ps2 cause thats the oldest system i still carry, but like the simplicity of that platform just doesn’t do it, the nostalgic feel can only go so far.
Just wanna throw it out there that the Monster Hunter series is a perfect example of in game free content becoming microtransactions in just a few years.
Old MH games had all cosmetic items as free event quest rewards, where you’d get a unique and fun battle to play, and a cosmetic reward for winning. No paid DLC even available to buy. MH Rise (the newest game) has 221 paid cosmetic items listed on their site. That number is not including bundles, soundtracks, character edit vouchers, or the expansion (Sunbreak) itself.
$60 game, $40 expansion, and 200+ paid cosmetics that would instead be free in earlier games in the series.
I have to apologize in advance, cuz I haven’t played a monster hunter game since the PS2, I started playing world but I just didn’t like it. That being said I know the PS2 version of Monster Hunter didn’t have a whole lot(in terms of cosmetics) but again it’s PS2. And I know that monster hunter world had some items available, and that rise is where it apparently was really hit with microtransactions. But from what I understand with monster hunter rise they gave the base cosmetic sets that they normally would have gave with the game, they just offered the paid expansion for the additional skins. Now being as I never actually played rise could be dead wrong on that but Google searching it seems to have given me the same answer.
Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate (released 2018 outside of JP) had a ton of dlc quest unlocks and they were all totally free. It’s proving difficult to find a proper separated list of exactly how many, but here’s a google doc that lists ~200 quest related equipment unlocks, the vast majority of which are dlc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hlBLacFYxdh83a-GkxYnsIF6nH7huP_H2aI4APRGicg/edit?gid=408012748#gid=408012748
Something noteworthy is that’s just quests for equipment. In contrast, there’s only 37 event quests (all event quests are free) in Rise that offer any unique item reward, and 23 of those quests give equipment.
Giving a very conservative estimate with that all in mind, I think it’s safe to say that GU had a good five times more free dlc rewards than Rise does.
Honestly stopped reading here because this is how it all started. Motherfucking horse armor was the very first paid cosmetic dlc, and it’s only gotten worse. Publishers will keep pushing the line for what is acceptable for squeezing money out of players. We have to push back at every turn, otherwise debacles like overwatch 2 will keep happening.
look at what else it has given the field though. Since that was created, user mod stores have become further involved, paid mod workshops and free mod workshops have sprouted up. Cosmetic’s that for the longest time never was even thought of are now sprung up. Character creation has been re-invented basically. None of this would have happened if it continued to be a one-off price. Honestly online servers wouldn’t be lasting as long either as no company will run a game once the profit margin stagnates.
The problem at hand is not microtransactions, it’s consumers willingness to put up with/buy bullshit that shouldn’t be one
This spoken like someone who never experienced mods and entire unlicensed expansions to games being made well before DLC was a thing. I’m sorry but again, this is counterfactual to the reality of decades of PC gaming prior to the launch of the Playstation and Xbox stores where everything was locked down and customization was turned into DLC.
I still can’t believe we sell fucking skins for guns. It’s so callously exploitative.
I started with the ps1(unless you include XP as “gaming” lol) , I can’t give information on what was before that, but if the gaming prior to that is anything compared to what was on the PS1 I’m not holding my breath on the amount of stuff that was actually included in games, but you peaked my interest so if you have examples of games that went above and beyond and gave more content than today’s styled games that have microtransactions I’m definitely all ears I’d love to look into it.
Travelling, but start by looking up Doom wads and Duke Nukem Build engine mods.
These were so plentiful they were put into compilations, and the best were even repackaged with the game in later releases.
Again, tons of playformers and fps titles would previously offer characters as unlocks as well as customization equipment. The Tekken series up through 5 had SO MUCH GEAR. Virtual Fighter up to VF 4 EVO. Fighting games were actually huge with this, and only Soul Calibur seems to have kept it around a bit. They still sell customizatipn packs I believe, but they offer FAR more out of the box than average.
Could list more but unfortunately about to lose signal.
sorry, I am just now realizing I misread your post. I thought you had meant first party content when I originally read the reply. Yea I agree that there are a far good amount of fan made mods and content, it’s still prevailed into the current field. I love when games launch with steam workshop support. I disagree that that content doesn’t exist anymore though. I still play quite a few games that have a store system and have a functional mod workshop on the side.
I do agree that some companies are lowering their access to their API services, or having that as a secondary thought, but thankfully they aren’t at the point where they just won’t allow for third party content period. Well mostly anyway, there are a few oddities out there that have cheat software in place that won’t allow it but thankfully those are few and far between. I’m currently struggling against the urge to mod my elden ring run myself, because I know that trips the multiplayer AC which will remove networking features.
I did also mean first party content. To my point though was that popular mods were often also rolled into titles as officially sanctioned expansions later on. But first party titles also featured significant amounts of unlockable and customizable content. This didn’t begin with the monetization era.
I feel like gear progression is massively underrated. I love to dress up with my muscley rpg man, and make him look cooler and more awesome as he gets stronger. I don’t want the best cosmetics locked behind a paywall. In MMOs it also just murders any respect/cred you get from having awesome gear that needed you to clear an epic raid or similar.
I get the whole cosmetics thing for “free to pay” e-sport-esc games though, where there’s not really any gear progression
Fully agree, I like gear progression in games, its been a bit since ive played one that relied on it but, it added stuff to do. I’m not saying that system shouldn’t exist as well. I also can’t think of any games that used that system that removed it when adding the store.
Assassin’s Creed is the best example I can think of. It added a store to literally buy gear. Also see like every MMO. This one is more of a reach, but I’d also say something like Hunt: Showdown falls victim to this, as it would be awesome if you could see a hunter and know their “power level” by the cosmetics.
Horizon, both ZD and FW, are a modern example of having gear progression that exists and isn’t ruined by microtransactions
Oh I’m sure a little line of coke won’t hurt. But just a peak into pandoras box…
Your mindset opened the floodgates for this market manipulation 20 years ago and you think we should try more of that?
These companies will never be satisfied until they can leverage your labor for another quarter in the machine.
There is no negotiating. Legislation is required.