Sociopathy is about lacking specific traits, like empathy for example. At least with respect to the diagnosis criteria they are quite different and calling everybody with ASD sociopaths is actually not a good look.
I don’t believe you. Show me sociopathy in the DSM. And no cheating, I don’t want to hear you say that sociopathy is actually a colloquialism for some other disorder.
“Sociopathy” as a concept predates the DSM. Although these days it’s not considered a “diagnosis” anymore, the set of disorders that were considered typical for sociopaths has now been grouped under ASPD. Nonetheless, the term “sociopath” stuck around and still refers to people who we would now likely give an ASPD diagnosis under the DSM.
Your claim that people with autism are considered sociopaths is just plain wrong. The etymology of a word doesn’t necessarily define its meaning. As an example, take the word “retard”. It used to have a diagnostic meaning, though these days it’s obviously not in the DSM anymore. Etymologically it just means “someone who is slow/late”, but if you call your colleague who is a little late for a meeting a retard, you’re going to get called to HR.
You’re correct, sociopathy is a social construct defined by use. And I’m using it to refer to autistic people and people with other sociopathies, in a blatantly transparent attempt to manipulate the general public into having some sympathy for those who have been historically branded with this slur.
The problem is that you’re coming across as extemely insensitive by branding people with autism with what we now consider a slur. Your attempt at sympathy is considered insulting because these days we don’t consider people with autism to be sociopaths. And in fact, we historically didn’t really do that either, as sociopathy historically required a total lack of empathy, which autistic people don’t have (they have trouble expressing or understanding it, but they don’t lack it entirely). That’s why, as our understanding of these conditions improved, sociopaths were mostly diagnosed with ASPD, whereas people with autism were diagnosed with ASD instead.
I’m willing to brand myself as a sociopath if it gets people to treat others with respect. I’m not going to abandon my fellow neurodivergents for self-preservation. We’re in this together.
But… Why? Nobody is calling autistic people sociopaths these days. Mr Beast is being called a sociopath due to his apparent lack of empathy evidenced by several videos he (attempted to get) made. He also doesn’t smile with his eyes, suggesting a lack of genuine emotion to people.
Your claim that people with autism are sociopaths also doesn’t lead to people treating neurodivergent people with more respect, because you yourself come across as uninformed and disrespecting of neurodivergent people.
You might have good intentions but I sincerely recommend you try a different approach.
I’m engaged in what B F Skinner called operant conditioning. It’s such a simple psychological effect, it works on all manner of animals. When an animal does something you don’t want, you do something the animal doesn’t want. Then the animal does it less. When someone platforms the idea that we’re all supposed to hate “sociopaths”, I create a pointless, annoying, and frustrating argument that pisses everyone off. Then people do it less. It doesn’t matter if I change anyone’s beliefs, this technique changes habits.
DSM’s current edition doesn’t specifically diagnose sociopathy, but it does address it as a corollary to ASPD. I suspect you know that. But sociopathy is well known to be a condition regarding the disregarding of the needs for others and it really isn’t socially advisable to label all autists as sociopaths despite your misunderstanding.
No, I’m saying the manual itself calls the diagnosis for sociopaths “ASPD”, while specifically referencing by name, sociopathy as a direct corollary. You may also see the following references with respect to what the term means outside of DSM 5:
I’m not saying the official diagnosis itself is called sociopathy, but rather that the diagnosis for what is generally described as sociopathy (ASPD) is very different than the criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder. So now perhaps your can provide references to those with Autism being correctly referred to as sociopaths.
Now, with the source game out of the way - you cheated. You said sociopathy is actually a different disorder. I specifically told you not to cheat like that. You’re arguing for garbage medicine. You’re saying sociopathy is a real and very important diagnosis, and not just a Greek buzzword, and your source is a completely different entry in the DSM. You’re a pseudoscientist.
You’ve probably guessed that, in my opinion, this category already exists. It’s called Antisocial Personality Disorder, or ASPD, and it is in the DSM-V.
He contrasts these people with autistic children who are unable to conceptualize the internal lives of others, but distressed when they are able to tell that another person is in pain.
Have you considered even reading those articles. They all clarify the same thing. Psychopath and sociopath are informal terms used to describe what is medically called ASPD. Further, only one even mentions Autism and only to illustrate that it is in contrast to this condition. So do you have any links that say people with Autism are sociopaths as you have asserted?
And to address your edit, I said neither of those things. What I’m saying is that sociopath means something different than Autism. You are being intentionally obtuse, and I tire of it. You said “all autistic people are sociopaths” which is a hurtful, ignorant comment which you have failed to substantiate.
While “sociopathy” isn’t a scientific term, claiming that all autistic people are sociopaths is a harmful false equivalence. Associating autism with the stigma of sociopathy based on your own definition doesn’t hold up. Your sources confirm that “sociopathy” isn’t scientific but don’t support your claim about autism.
ASD and ASPD are distinct conditions, and the colloquial use of “sociopath” generally refers to traits associated with ASPD, not autism. Language evolves over time—consider how “literally” now also means “figuratively” due to ironic use, or how “antisemitism” specifically refers to discrimination against Jews, despite its broader etymological roots. Similarly, “sociopath” today typically refers to ASPD-related traits, not just any “social illness.”
The person you’re responding to provided reputable sources disputing your definition, while your own sources lack expertise in psychology or linguistics. In fact, your third source even contradicts your argument; the article cites a contemporary psychologist who directly contrasts psychopaths with autistic children, highlighting the differences between the two conditions. If you’re calling others “pseudoscientists,” it’s important to evaluate your sources more carefully.
People aren’t downvoting the idea that “sociopathy is nothing to be ashamed of”—that’s a valid point. But instead of playing word games, you could focus on that truth directly.
Sociopathy is about lacking specific traits, like empathy for example. At least with respect to the diagnosis criteria they are quite different and calling everybody with ASD sociopaths is actually not a good look.
I don’t believe you. Show me sociopathy in the DSM. And no cheating, I don’t want to hear you say that sociopathy is actually a colloquialism for some other disorder.
“Sociopathy” as a concept predates the DSM. Although these days it’s not considered a “diagnosis” anymore, the set of disorders that were considered typical for sociopaths has now been grouped under ASPD. Nonetheless, the term “sociopath” stuck around and still refers to people who we would now likely give an ASPD diagnosis under the DSM.
Your claim that people with autism are considered sociopaths is just plain wrong. The etymology of a word doesn’t necessarily define its meaning. As an example, take the word “retard”. It used to have a diagnostic meaning, though these days it’s obviously not in the DSM anymore. Etymologically it just means “someone who is slow/late”, but if you call your colleague who is a little late for a meeting a retard, you’re going to get called to HR.
You’re correct, sociopathy is a social construct defined by use. And I’m using it to refer to autistic people and people with other sociopathies, in a blatantly transparent attempt to manipulate the general public into having some sympathy for those who have been historically branded with this slur.
The problem is that you’re coming across as extemely insensitive by branding people with autism with what we now consider a slur. Your attempt at sympathy is considered insulting because these days we don’t consider people with autism to be sociopaths. And in fact, we historically didn’t really do that either, as sociopathy historically required a total lack of empathy, which autistic people don’t have (they have trouble expressing or understanding it, but they don’t lack it entirely). That’s why, as our understanding of these conditions improved, sociopaths were mostly diagnosed with ASPD, whereas people with autism were diagnosed with ASD instead.
I’m willing to brand myself as a sociopath if it gets people to treat others with respect. I’m not going to abandon my fellow neurodivergents for self-preservation. We’re in this together.
But… Why? Nobody is calling autistic people sociopaths these days. Mr Beast is being called a sociopath due to his apparent lack of empathy evidenced by several videos he (attempted to get) made. He also doesn’t smile with his eyes, suggesting a lack of genuine emotion to people.
Your claim that people with autism are sociopaths also doesn’t lead to people treating neurodivergent people with more respect, because you yourself come across as uninformed and disrespecting of neurodivergent people.
You might have good intentions but I sincerely recommend you try a different approach.
I’m engaged in what B F Skinner called operant conditioning. It’s such a simple psychological effect, it works on all manner of animals. When an animal does something you don’t want, you do something the animal doesn’t want. Then the animal does it less. When someone platforms the idea that we’re all supposed to hate “sociopaths”, I create a pointless, annoying, and frustrating argument that pisses everyone off. Then people do it less. It doesn’t matter if I change anyone’s beliefs, this technique changes habits.
DSM’s current edition doesn’t specifically diagnose sociopathy, but it does address it as a corollary to ASPD. I suspect you know that. But sociopathy is well known to be a condition regarding the disregarding of the needs for others and it really isn’t socially advisable to label all autists as sociopaths despite your misunderstanding.
So you’re saying that the made up disorder you’re describing has been discredited and no longer exists in the DSM? Okay, thanks for playing.
No, I’m saying the manual itself calls the diagnosis for sociopaths “ASPD”, while specifically referencing by name, sociopathy as a direct corollary. You may also see the following references with respect to what the term means outside of DSM 5:
I’m not saying the official diagnosis itself is called sociopathy, but rather that the diagnosis for what is generally described as sociopathy (ASPD) is very different than the criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder. So now perhaps your can provide references to those with Autism being correctly referred to as sociopaths.
https://medium.com/@lillieefranks/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-psychopath-4992690a0044
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/signs-sociopath
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/wiring-the-mind/201408/psychopaths-the-worst-people-who-dont-exist
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/laurenstrapagiel/what-is-difference-between-sociopath-pyschopath
Now, with the source game out of the way - you cheated. You said sociopathy is actually a different disorder. I specifically told you not to cheat like that. You’re arguing for garbage medicine. You’re saying sociopathy is a real and very important diagnosis, and not just a Greek buzzword, and your source is a completely different entry in the DSM. You’re a pseudoscientist.
Have you considered even reading those articles. They all clarify the same thing. Psychopath and sociopath are informal terms used to describe what is medically called ASPD. Further, only one even mentions Autism and only to illustrate that it is in contrast to this condition. So do you have any links that say people with Autism are sociopaths as you have asserted?
And to address your edit, I said neither of those things. What I’m saying is that sociopath means something different than Autism. You are being intentionally obtuse, and I tire of it. You said “all autistic people are sociopaths” which is a hurtful, ignorant comment which you have failed to substantiate.
While “sociopathy” isn’t a scientific term, claiming that all autistic people are sociopaths is a harmful false equivalence. Associating autism with the stigma of sociopathy based on your own definition doesn’t hold up. Your sources confirm that “sociopathy” isn’t scientific but don’t support your claim about autism.
ASD and ASPD are distinct conditions, and the colloquial use of “sociopath” generally refers to traits associated with ASPD, not autism. Language evolves over time—consider how “literally” now also means “figuratively” due to ironic use, or how “antisemitism” specifically refers to discrimination against Jews, despite its broader etymological roots. Similarly, “sociopath” today typically refers to ASPD-related traits, not just any “social illness.”
The person you’re responding to provided reputable sources disputing your definition, while your own sources lack expertise in psychology or linguistics. In fact, your third source even contradicts your argument; the article cites a contemporary psychologist who directly contrasts psychopaths with autistic children, highlighting the differences between the two conditions. If you’re calling others “pseudoscientists,” it’s important to evaluate your sources more carefully.
People aren’t downvoting the idea that “sociopathy is nothing to be ashamed of”—that’s a valid point. But instead of playing word games, you could focus on that truth directly.