ok, I need the collective wise mind of the dt to help explain this weird behaviour
my MIL insists on visiting her sick son in hospital every single day, sick son, my BIL, has had terrible cardiac disease which required many months in hospital
So MIL would visit every day. She’s not a caring person, If someone is sick she says, "I don’t like that you/they are sick. " She doesn’t do any actual tending. She is narcissistic , diagnosed.
Her visits became a burden on the son and the doctors told her to stop coming as son needed undisturbed rest. She still went to visit.
I just can’t figure what she got out of it. Why did she do it?
She impeded his recuperation.
Her visiting usually meant no one else could visit as visiting was restricted.
She complained about going.
If the goal was to make people think she was nice and caring it didn’t work.
maybe she need reassurance from her son ( yes, that is fucked up )
It’s narcissism, that’s it. It isn’t rational to us because we don’t place ourselves at the centre of everyone else’s universe.
It is important to her that she feels she is right and doing good. Doing something she thinks she is supposed to, against Drs orders, means she gets to feel like a victim, a bullied mother being forced to stop seeing her sick son. She did it because she gets validation about the whole ordeal.
Yes, she gets to be the victim to all the people who only know her and not her family. That’s where the validation comes from because she can spin whatever story she wants, who is going to fact check?
Echoing others’ remarks about narcissism. Some people have such a shallow perception of goodness that they feel they tick the Virtuous And Hardworking box through nakedly surface level actions. They cannot see how those actions might not actually be what the other person wanted. That’s not a consideration. That might as well be particle physics, sure it’s real and governs every aspect of our existence, but too much intricacy for day to day life
Ticks a few NPD boxes there. Very rough on the BIL. Have a few in my fam and it’s basically hitting your head against a brick wall :( Feel for you guys, not easy.
Surely BiL can ask for her to not be admitted? And Drs happily lie about things like not being eligible for organ donation if asked. Seems similar to me, no visitors (who are you) permitted
BIL really did not have the physical or mental energy to ask for much of anything
and I think the doctors didn’t want a fight as it would have been extremely stressful for BIL, and she would have fought if denied entry or was asked to leave
that’s if her meek passive manipulation didn’t work
The Martyr - someone who tries to get sympathy from others when he or she has a problem or too much work, usually when that person caused the problem or chose to do the work himself or herself:
I would bet my arse she has told EVERYONE how she must visit her son because nobody else has. Poor me.
Secondly. She doesn’t want to miss out on anything that is said by doctors or staff.
I copy and pasted the description of what a Martyr is btw but everything else was mine. I’ve met a few martyrs in my time. They stand out like dog’s balls.
How to deal with a martyr? You can’t because they won’t listen. They are more wiser than you.
BIL is in hospital so the focus and sympathies are with him. She doesn’t want to miss out on anything so she becomes the Martyr. Look at me/us. Now feel sorry for me because my son is sick.
I think it’s more out of boredom (even though martyrs are ALWAYS busy). The manipulation is just a bonus.
This reminds me so much of a selfish, childish uncle I have…
ugh
He gets very possessive of certain people in his life, and if they need care, it doesn’t matter that he’s not helping, or even actively making things worse… only HE gets to be there. HE must supervise and monitor interactions. If you are on the phone too long with one of his people you would hear him starting to demand their attention in the background, increasingly louder, cutting midway into sentences. Of course in the first instance when something bad happens to one of those certain people he makes it all about HIMSELF. Full dramatic breakdown and whimpering and redirecting attention to himself. He’s like 79
Shockingly in the last 2-3 years has he improved to the point that I can visit my aunt and stay out late without him calling in increasingly short intervals after 6pm. And he is more restrained. It took a severe family tragedy, though. Plus realising how many people who formerly tolerated him were actively avoiding him.
Some people are beyond any meaningful change though IMO.
I can tell from the answers who has suffered a narcissist in their life. It’s hard to get your head around, because their behaviour is so confounding to a normal person. The thing that finally clicked for me, is for every behaviour, you have to think how is this about the narcissist. It’s about no one else. They seek adoration, admiration, power, control, status, attention. Constantly. It’s never about you, it’s ALWAYS about them. They feel bitter inside if they don’t get these things. They seek to manipulate situations so they can satisfy their needs. ‘Woe is me’, ‘look how devoted I am’, ‘I’m the most important’ etc could all be motivators. And probably others, that I can’t get my brain to think of, because to a regular person it’s baffling that a person might do something detrimental to a seriously ill person, for their own glory and control. Has nothing to do with the BIL. He’s just a convenient tool.
I am so sorry this person is in your life. It’s hard.
I have suffered terribly at the hands of narcissists and I still have so much trouble understanding what is going on. Still naive.
You wrote “Constantly.” I think that is what I need to really remember, it’s 24 hours a day and every situation for them because it’s who they are, in a way they can’t help it.
Every word, every action. They believe in nothing except themselves.
ok, I need the collective wise mind of the dt to help explain this weird behaviour
my MIL insists on visiting her sick son in hospital every single day, sick son, my BIL, has had terrible cardiac disease which required many months in hospital
So MIL would visit every day. She’s not a caring person, If someone is sick she says, "I don’t like that you/they are sick. " She doesn’t do any actual tending. She is narcissistic , diagnosed.
Her visits became a burden on the son and the doctors told her to stop coming as son needed undisturbed rest. She still went to visit.
I just can’t figure what she got out of it. Why did she do it?
She impeded his recuperation. Her visiting usually meant no one else could visit as visiting was restricted. She complained about going.
If the goal was to make people think she was nice and caring it didn’t work.
maybe she need reassurance from her son ( yes, that is fucked up )
I am at a loss as to why she did it.
It’s narcissism, that’s it. It isn’t rational to us because we don’t place ourselves at the centre of everyone else’s universe.
It is important to her that she feels she is right and doing good. Doing something she thinks she is supposed to, against Drs orders, means she gets to feel like a victim, a bullied mother being forced to stop seeing her sick son. She did it because she gets validation about the whole ordeal.
that never occurred to me
I am such a naif
I was thinking from the point of view of the patient
She would really think she was being bullied/is a victim ? I am gobsmacked.
Yes, she gets to be the victim to all the people who only know her and not her family. That’s where the validation comes from because she can spin whatever story she wants, who is going to fact check?
Echoing others’ remarks about narcissism. Some people have such a shallow perception of goodness that they feel they tick the Virtuous And Hardworking box through nakedly surface level actions. They cannot see how those actions might not actually be what the other person wanted. That’s not a consideration. That might as well be particle physics, sure it’s real and governs every aspect of our existence, but too much intricacy for day to day life
Grandiose Sense of Self-Importance…
Attention-Seeking Behavior…
Lack of Empathy…
Exploiting Others…
Ticks a few NPD boxes there. Very rough on the BIL. Have a few in my fam and it’s basically hitting your head against a brick wall :( Feel for you guys, not easy.
Grandiose Sense of Self-Importance…
So she is so important everyone must want her presence and she will bestow her presence on those she deems worthy ( or can exploit )
Her visit is more important than anyone else’s. Does not matter to her other people couldn’t visit
she know better than doctors or just doesn’t care
My father was like this. It’s to keep up a charade maybe. Both for herself and anyone that asks.
She can convince herself and others how much of a martyr she is. How much it impacts her to go everyday, but by God she goes anyway!
You get the idea.
yes, I got a strong sense of this
Surely BiL can ask for her to not be admitted? And Drs happily lie about things like not being eligible for organ donation if asked. Seems similar to me, no visitors (who are you) permitted
BIL really did not have the physical or mental energy to ask for much of anything
and I think the doctors didn’t want a fight as it would have been extremely stressful for BIL, and she would have fought if denied entry or was asked to leave
that’s if her meek passive manipulation didn’t work
Grrr!
I am not wise but I’ll give this a crack.
The Martyr - someone who tries to get sympathy from others when he or she has a problem or too much work, usually when that person caused the problem or chose to do the work himself or herself:
I would bet my arse she has told EVERYONE how she must visit her son because nobody else has. Poor me.
Secondly. She doesn’t want to miss out on anything that is said by doctors or staff.
Yeah this is my vibe too. Sorry. That’s super shitty behaviour
For sure.
No one else could go because he was only allowed one short visit a day 😡 A few times I had to go to bring things but couldn’t actually visit.
she never brought him anything he needed, that was still left up to other people
Agreed.
And yet she ignored the doctors advice on what would be good for son.
I copy and pasted the description of what a Martyr is btw but everything else was mine. I’ve met a few martyrs in my time. They stand out like dog’s balls.
How to deal with a martyr? You can’t because they won’t listen. They are more wiser than you.
agree
thing is she denies it was her choice
Of course. That’s what a Martyr does. I have to. Poor me.
I know I grumble, everyone I know does
but we aren’t doing it for sympathy and none of us say poor me
it’s a coping mechanism to grumble
whereas a martyr is manipulating
Is that right?
Kind of.
BIL is in hospital so the focus and sympathies are with him. She doesn’t want to miss out on anything so she becomes the Martyr. Look at me/us. Now feel sorry for me because my son is sick.
I think it’s more out of boredom (even though martyrs are ALWAYS busy). The manipulation is just a bonus.
so it’s opportunistic? It’s how she handles situations she is presented with.
I think I’m starting to better understand how narcissistic think and behave
This reminds me so much of a selfish, childish uncle I have…
ugh
He gets very possessive of certain people in his life, and if they need care, it doesn’t matter that he’s not helping, or even actively making things worse… only HE gets to be there. HE must supervise and monitor interactions. If you are on the phone too long with one of his people you would hear him starting to demand their attention in the background, increasingly louder, cutting midway into sentences. Of course in the first instance when something bad happens to one of those certain people he makes it all about HIMSELF. Full dramatic breakdown and whimpering and redirecting attention to himself. He’s like 79
Shockingly in the last 2-3 years has he improved to the point that I can visit my aunt and stay out late without him calling in increasingly short intervals after 6pm. And he is more restrained. It took a severe family tragedy, though. Plus realising how many people who formerly tolerated him were actively avoiding him.
Some people are beyond any meaningful change though IMO.
She sounds churchy.
It’s def important to her that people think she is spiritual.
To her not being spiritual is an insult, so she calls other people not spiritual is she doesn’t like them/is angry.
Would like to think through this one in detail - does sound weird on first impressions. Will respond later.
Just for more context, has she been asked why she visits every day and what her answer to that is?
Yes, she has been asked.
She said she should, no reason given That’s all she said.
When told the doctors said not to she just ignored what we said, just like how she ignored the doctors.
I think it’s possible he was a captive audience.
I don’t care , I’m just curious/puzzled.
I can tell from the answers who has suffered a narcissist in their life. It’s hard to get your head around, because their behaviour is so confounding to a normal person. The thing that finally clicked for me, is for every behaviour, you have to think how is this about the narcissist. It’s about no one else. They seek adoration, admiration, power, control, status, attention. Constantly. It’s never about you, it’s ALWAYS about them. They feel bitter inside if they don’t get these things. They seek to manipulate situations so they can satisfy their needs. ‘Woe is me’, ‘look how devoted I am’, ‘I’m the most important’ etc could all be motivators. And probably others, that I can’t get my brain to think of, because to a regular person it’s baffling that a person might do something detrimental to a seriously ill person, for their own glory and control. Has nothing to do with the BIL. He’s just a convenient tool. I am so sorry this person is in your life. It’s hard.
I have suffered terribly at the hands of narcissists and I still have so much trouble understanding what is going on. Still naive.
You wrote “Constantly.” I think that is what I need to really remember, it’s 24 hours a day and every situation for them because it’s who they are, in a way they can’t help it.
Every word, every action. They believe in nothing except themselves.