• @EnderMB
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    3 months ago

    There are a lot of jobs that require out of hours support, specifically those that aren’t tied to business hours. In tech at least, many of the sites and services you use are built off the backs of software engineers that are paged at 5am because latency is a little higher than normal.

    I don’t raise this to say that this rule is bullshit, but to say that there are a lot of arguments that will be used to push people to work longer than their allotted hours. IMO this is absolutely required, but I would go further and say that any contact outside of working hours implies a working contract, and guarantees that the employee is paid for the disruption caused. That includes on-call too, which is often unpaid.

    Labor laws in the US are, frankly, hilariously bad. You deserve unlimited sick pay, at least 25 days holiday (separate from sick leave), and the removal of at-will employment. What is described here is the bare minimum of what you should have.

    • @[email protected]
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      153 months ago

      There are a lot of jobs that require out of hours support, specifically those that aren’t tied to business hours. In tech at least, many of the sites and services you use are built off the backs of software engineers that are paged at 5am because latency is a little higher than normal.

      There is a very easy solution to this dilemma: pay someone to stand ready at off-hours.

      • @[email protected]
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        33 months ago

        My first job in the late 90s did just that - 1 hour pay for every 8 on call. 4 hours when you get a call (even if it took 5 minutes.)

      • @EnderMB
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        -43 months ago

        While true, there are some complications to this:

        • Unsociable hours usually require more pay
        • If you’re already working 40 hours a week, focusing on stuff out of hours is going to be hard. I know this all too well!

        IMO, this is EXACTLY where outsourcing should be used. Either move someone from the US (or your home country) to where you need support, ensure you have a good triage system for issues that might come up, etc.

        • @[email protected]
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          43 months ago

          What is complicated? You give two bullet points and a potential solution that all fall under the umbrella of “paying someone.” This solves the problem.

          • @EnderMB
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            13 months ago

            It’s a simple solution to what’s a more nuanced problem.

            Be honest. If faced with the choice to cut hours/roles, move roles overseas, or to “pay more”, do you think many business owners will do the latter?

            You need to consider the nuance here, otherwise you find a similar situation to the minimum wage rises, where businesses complain about the operations not being viable because they need to start treating workers like humans.

            • @[email protected]
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              13 months ago

              Yes, I agree. We definitely need to consider the “nuance” of a situation where business is asked to treat their workers like human beings.

              • @EnderMB
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                13 months ago

                You can be as obtuse as you want. You know I’m right, and it’s exactly why legislation is needed to ensure these things are done correctly to stop businesses from exploiting the rules.

        • @[email protected]
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          23 months ago

          I worked retail for 10+ years, and never once did I receive more pay for working on weekends, nor have I ever met anyone who has.

          • @EnderMB
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            13 months ago

            Might be another Americanism. It’s been close to two decades since I worked retail, but I got paid more on weekends than weekdays.

        • @[email protected]
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          13 months ago

          If you’re already working 40 hours a week, focusing on stuff out of hours is going to be hard. I know this all too well!

          I was thinking more along the lines of ‘nightshift’. 😀

    • @[email protected]
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      3 months ago

      Hey guess what, some people have to work on weekends too. Seems like we were able to figure that one out no problem.

    • @teamevil
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      33 months ago

      Those of us who admin critical systems know when we’re responsible and know which folks call us regarding those systems. I’m not answering a call from a random manager but If the engineering chain calls, they don’t abuse the privilege.