I don’t think it has to be that way to get the results that we want.
Get rid of zoning. Fire local politicians for bad employment numbers. Loss of local control over infrastructure if they can’t keep up with community needs. Make it clear to every small government that they are getting a factory in their town and if they mess with the ability to produce and employbpeople a higher level of government will step in and take over.
You need to have fair and consistent rules. Zoning is a why to ensure things like hog farms that stink several miles away are not located near people - but if you build a hog farm that doesn’t stink you should be able to build it anywhere.
Oh you going to play that card? Sure. Tell me, do you think that every single person in your society follows the same rules or are some of them more equal than others?
Zoning is a why to ensure things like hog farms that stink several miles away are not located near people
Jesus. Ok first off this isn’t a problem anymore. We have had odor scrubbers for decades. I know, I have designed and installed them. For situations where that is not appropriate we can often simply crank up the HVAC and do a burn off. For example coffee processing plants will often do that. Still not enough? Ok we can wrap the whole dang thing in a tarp and emit it slowly. Still not working? Cool, let’s put some trees around it and sink it down a meter or two. Odor is not an issue anymore if you put in effort. It hasn’t been for decades.
I have been to wastewater treatment plants in August and could only smell something when my head was directly over the wetwell. You of course know what a wetwell is since you are talking about zoning I am sure. Nope, no need to Google that ;)
Zoning laws are not about odor. They are about Karen’s getting to keep minorities and jobs out of certain areas.
Sure. Tell me, do you think that every single person in your society follows the same rules or are some of them more equal than others?
The point is society agrees the rules are fair and consistent. Philosophy can have a whole other discussion of what “fair” and “consistent” means - but they generally don’t have answers and I don’t care. Even if they are biased against you, and you find them unfair, if you at least can read them you know/can find loopholes.
Odor scrubbers is why zoning shouldn’t specify no farms, it should specify odor levels. There will be more technological progress.
Zoning laws are in part about “Karen’s”, but there are some useful things in them, and they were also adopted back in the day because of some things modern humans also agree is wrong. this is why I used hog farms as an example - people need to figure out what the real important part is. I’ve been in hog barns, I wouldn’t want to live near one without odor control, and zoning is how you accomplish that. That zoning as we currently write it solves it in the wrong way doesn’t mean we throw up the idea of preventing the problem.
The part that keeps dangerous industry away from places where people live.
I recognize two zones, places where accidents, odor, or other such issues may reach neighboring property and everything else. The first shouldn’t allow houses, offices ,or regular stores . Many farmers will be shocked to find I don’t think they should live on their farm.
It is a side effect of separate industrial zones from residential zones. There are borders where they touch and some grandfathered mixes ,but overall it is how things work out.
Edit, i’m sure you can point out many ways where it isn’t very effective at separating things that for reasons of danger should be. However it does still function that way overall even if not perfect.
That’s an ignorant view of China’s success. Anyway, the extraordinary regulations that were used are far more interesting than any lacking or deregulation:
Forbid foreign controlling ownership of domestic corporations, cultivating a solid and independent domestic leadership
Blocked many foreign services from operating, allowing domestic replacements to copy and grow to be quite capable competition
Prevented (slowed) capital from leaving the country
Very different cultural approach to intellectual property
Some call this theft but we could have the exact same discussion about Bit Torrent/piracy
Modern IP laws in the West also used to be controversial (Can you patent an algorithm? Copyright a number?)
The most extensive propaganda and censorship apparatus in the world
A patriotic citizenry is a highly motivated citizenry (eg. US in WW2)
The court of public opinion/shame is leveraged by the state (versus cultural personalities in the US)
You massive labor and enviromental degulation? Thatll go over real well
I don’t think it has to be that way to get the results that we want.
Get rid of zoning. Fire local politicians for bad employment numbers. Loss of local control over infrastructure if they can’t keep up with community needs. Make it clear to every small government that they are getting a factory in their town and if they mess with the ability to produce and employbpeople a higher level of government will step in and take over.
You need to have fair and consistent rules. Zoning is a why to ensure things like hog farms that stink several miles away are not located near people - but if you build a hog farm that doesn’t stink you should be able to build it anywhere.
Oh you going to play that card? Sure. Tell me, do you think that every single person in your society follows the same rules or are some of them more equal than others?
Jesus. Ok first off this isn’t a problem anymore. We have had odor scrubbers for decades. I know, I have designed and installed them. For situations where that is not appropriate we can often simply crank up the HVAC and do a burn off. For example coffee processing plants will often do that. Still not enough? Ok we can wrap the whole dang thing in a tarp and emit it slowly. Still not working? Cool, let’s put some trees around it and sink it down a meter or two. Odor is not an issue anymore if you put in effort. It hasn’t been for decades.
I have been to wastewater treatment plants in August and could only smell something when my head was directly over the wetwell. You of course know what a wetwell is since you are talking about zoning I am sure. Nope, no need to Google that ;)
Zoning laws are not about odor. They are about Karen’s getting to keep minorities and jobs out of certain areas.
The point is society agrees the rules are fair and consistent. Philosophy can have a whole other discussion of what “fair” and “consistent” means - but they generally don’t have answers and I don’t care. Even if they are biased against you, and you find them unfair, if you at least can read them you know/can find loopholes.
Odor scrubbers is why zoning shouldn’t specify no farms, it should specify odor levels. There will be more technological progress.
Zoning laws are in part about “Karen’s”, but there are some useful things in them, and they were also adopted back in the day because of some things modern humans also agree is wrong. this is why I used hog farms as an example - people need to figure out what the real important part is. I’ve been in hog barns, I wouldn’t want to live near one without odor control, and zoning is how you accomplish that. That zoning as we currently write it solves it in the wrong way doesn’t mean we throw up the idea of preventing the problem.
Tell me what part of zoning makes sense.
The part that keeps dangerous industry away from places where people live.
I recognize two zones, places where accidents, odor, or other such issues may reach neighboring property and everything else. The first shouldn’t allow houses, offices ,or regular stores . Many farmers will be shocked to find I don’t think they should live on their farm.
What part is that? Keep in mind that this is my profession. Show me the “part of zoning” that does this.
It is a side effect of separate industrial zones from residential zones. There are borders where they touch and some grandfathered mixes ,but overall it is how things work out.
Edit, i’m sure you can point out many ways where it isn’t very effective at separating things that for reasons of danger should be. However it does still function that way overall even if not perfect.
That’s an ignorant view of China’s success. Anyway, the extraordinary regulations that were used are far more interesting than any lacking or deregulation: