There is no value proposition in trying to persuade you. That is not the value of discussion.
In most cases, yeah, I’d agree. In this particular case, it can be argued one way or the other. Someone can see us and say “megane-kun is trying to convince me not to sell my account,” for example. Personally, I agree with you on that one point in this instance. I think we’re just two people exchanging views on a certain question. But in certain cases, where persuasion leads to action, it’s different. And this is actually pretty much intertwined to the topic at hand. It is this potential for action that makes persuasion valuable in certain cases.
I took that you already suggested that some people just aren’t capable of understanding the seperation, and I acknowledged that as being a real, possible scenario. But I also questioned how far you can really go by babysitting them. At some point you have to accept the lost cause, no?
I’m arguing that, no, in certain instances, and in the cases that are most relevant to the question of selling one’s account, that there are people at work in making this separation really hard. That the job of a troll farm, the most likely buyer of one’s account, is to make that distinction be very hard for community moderators and ordinary people alike (even more so for the latter), and the effort to make the distinction incredibly hard as to give up on it, or make sloppy shortcuts (account age, karma, etc). Why do all this? To influence others to do certain things, be it in politics (voting for one person over the other), or in advertising (buying one product that you don’t need).
Personally, however, I agree. Some people can’t just be helped, and that it’s unfortunate that this kind of people could be a majority. However, since I know with certain confidence, that there are bad actors at play that working overtime such that the likes of us would fail, always, I have to just be a little more understanding, and be aware that I myself can fall victim to such machinations.
I suppose the crux of this discussion is this: I am arguing that selling my account helps the disinformation machine, you’re arguing that it doesn’t matter, that the responsibility lies in the person imbibing information.
If that’s the case (and that I’m understanding you properly), well, personally speaking, I see no reason why it can’t be both: be responsible in imbibing information, but be aware that there are bad actors at play (and don’t lend these bad actors a hand).
I think we’re just two people exchanging views on a certain question.
Wouldn’t you say that writing comments on forums is a solitary activity? I mean, there is good reason to believe you exist out there as another person, but is that not just an implementation detail of the software? Would it make any difference if the software quietly replaced you with something akin to ChatGPT? The answer is no. If done well, I’d never notice. The value is not in the exchange with another person either.
Don’t get me wrong. I do believe there can be value in exchange with other people. But when one seeks that they go outside. This environment is quite different; it is very much designed around the individual.
But in certain cases, where persuasion leads to action, it’s different.
I didn’t mean to suggest that argument cannot happen, but I don’t see the value in it. I don’t find enjoyment in changing random interest stranger’s (or ChatGPT model’s) minds. And when I’m spending my precious free time, it had better be enjoyably spent. If they are “wrong”, that’s their problem. One needs to take some relaxing downtime just for themselves now and again.
that the responsibility lies in the person imbibing information.
Well, I suggest that the responsibility lies on us to create a world where people struggling with misinformation is not an impediment. I get the appeal of trying to sweep them under the rug. It unquestionably makes things easier, like not needing to accommodate those in wheelchairs makes things easier. But must we take the easy road?
My argument has always rested on the question of why someone might buy an account. Whatever it is that we enjoy online, in places such as Lemmy, Reddit, or whatever, is besides the point.
I get the appeal of trying to sweep them under the rug. It unquestionably makes things easier, like not needing to accommodate those in wheelchairs makes things easier. But must we take the easy road?
I’d say it’s not even a problem of someone sweeping things under the rug, but an intruder throwing dust and trash all around.
I think I’ve already said my piece here, and as you’ve said: “Truthfully, I have no care as to what kind of views you hold. There is no value proposition in trying to persuade you. That is not the value of discussion.”
My argument has always rested on the question of why someone might buy an account.
And that is because the good names are already taken. People are also paying stupid amounts of money to secure an already registered <desirable name>.com and it is clearly for reasons of vanity, not malicious activity.
Technically speaking, jfkldajflkdnalkmfq3u409ijaeklfja0ui3qjaklfa.tires works just as well as any other domain name. Cheap bastards like me would unquestionably choose that over paying millions for something that looks nicer, but those with millions to burn clearly have other ideas.
I’d say it’s not even a problem of someone sweeping things under the rug, but an intruder throwing dust and trash all around.
The disabled and people with other life challenges will always exist. Call them swept under the rug or trash thrown around, but either way, why do you believe that is the right approach to dealing with them as opposed to accommodating them? Just because it is easier for you?
In most cases, yeah, I’d agree. In this particular case, it can be argued one way or the other. Someone can see us and say “megane-kun is trying to convince me not to sell my account,” for example. Personally, I agree with you on that one point in this instance. I think we’re just two people exchanging views on a certain question. But in certain cases, where persuasion leads to action, it’s different. And this is actually pretty much intertwined to the topic at hand. It is this potential for action that makes persuasion valuable in certain cases.
I’m arguing that, no, in certain instances, and in the cases that are most relevant to the question of selling one’s account, that there are people at work in making this separation really hard. That the job of a troll farm, the most likely buyer of one’s account, is to make that distinction be very hard for community moderators and ordinary people alike (even more so for the latter), and the effort to make the distinction incredibly hard as to give up on it, or make sloppy shortcuts (account age, karma, etc). Why do all this? To influence others to do certain things, be it in politics (voting for one person over the other), or in advertising (buying one product that you don’t need).
Personally, however, I agree. Some people can’t just be helped, and that it’s unfortunate that this kind of people could be a majority. However, since I know with certain confidence, that there are bad actors at play that working overtime such that the likes of us would fail, always, I have to just be a little more understanding, and be aware that I myself can fall victim to such machinations.
I suppose the crux of this discussion is this: I am arguing that selling my account helps the disinformation machine, you’re arguing that it doesn’t matter, that the responsibility lies in the person imbibing information.
If that’s the case (and that I’m understanding you properly), well, personally speaking, I see no reason why it can’t be both: be responsible in imbibing information, but be aware that there are bad actors at play (and don’t lend these bad actors a hand).
Wouldn’t you say that writing comments on forums is a solitary activity? I mean, there is good reason to believe you exist out there as another person, but is that not just an implementation detail of the software? Would it make any difference if the software quietly replaced you with something akin to ChatGPT? The answer is no. If done well, I’d never notice. The value is not in the exchange with another person either.
Don’t get me wrong. I do believe there can be value in exchange with other people. But when one seeks that they go outside. This environment is quite different; it is very much designed around the individual.
I didn’t mean to suggest that argument cannot happen, but I don’t see the value in it. I don’t find enjoyment in changing random interest stranger’s (or ChatGPT model’s) minds. And when I’m spending my precious free time, it had better be enjoyably spent. If they are “wrong”, that’s their problem. One needs to take some relaxing downtime just for themselves now and again.
Well, I suggest that the responsibility lies on us to create a world where people struggling with misinformation is not an impediment. I get the appeal of trying to sweep them under the rug. It unquestionably makes things easier, like not needing to accommodate those in wheelchairs makes things easier. But must we take the easy road?
My argument has always rested on the question of why someone might buy an account. Whatever it is that we enjoy online, in places such as Lemmy, Reddit, or whatever, is besides the point.
I’d say it’s not even a problem of someone sweeping things under the rug, but an intruder throwing dust and trash all around.
I think I’ve already said my piece here, and as you’ve said: “Truthfully, I have no care as to what kind of views you hold. There is no value proposition in trying to persuade you. That is not the value of discussion.”
And that is because the good names are already taken. People are also paying stupid amounts of money to secure an already registered <desirable name>.com and it is clearly for reasons of vanity, not malicious activity.
Technically speaking, jfkldajflkdnalkmfq3u409ijaeklfja0ui3qjaklfa.tires works just as well as any other domain name. Cheap bastards like me would unquestionably choose that over paying millions for something that looks nicer, but those with millions to burn clearly have other ideas.
The disabled and people with other life challenges will always exist. Call them swept under the rug or trash thrown around, but either way, why do you believe that is the right approach to dealing with them as opposed to accommodating them? Just because it is easier for you?