Marxism doesn’t call on the state to do that. That’s leninism. Marxism is highly unobjectionable. The problem is how we get there. Marx himself spoke of an evolution over a long period of time in Society to arrive there. However humans desire immediate gratification. And thus that was unsatisfactory for most people. Which is where Engles, Lenin and others enter the picture. Who thought they could jump start communism/marxism using the very thing that kept communism/Marxism from being possible. The state.
I’m generally sympathetic to Marxism in general, but that’s not the main thrust of the meme so I’ll just say “Marxists aren’t inherently tankies” and leave it at that.
A functional stateless society would be a generational undertaking not an overnight revolution, anarchists who believe otherwise are in the above picture.
I mean that sounds just like, Marxism-Leninism withering of the state kinda line really so that’s what I get confused on unless you’re saying that MLs are fundamentally anarchists in that they strive for a stateless society (eventually)
Typically, the idea of Marxists is to use the state apparatus to dismantle the state apparatus in the end.
Typically, the idea of anarchists is to build parallel structures outside of the state apparatus until the state apparatus is no longer able to resist the alternate power base deciding to dissolve the state.
You cannot use a nation state to fix problems with the nation state. Marxism in general has real “the free market will regulate itself” vibes.
Marxism doesn’t call on the state to do that. That’s leninism. Marxism is highly unobjectionable. The problem is how we get there. Marx himself spoke of an evolution over a long period of time in Society to arrive there. However humans desire immediate gratification. And thus that was unsatisfactory for most people. Which is where Engles, Lenin and others enter the picture. Who thought they could jump start communism/marxism using the very thing that kept communism/Marxism from being possible. The state.
I’m generally sympathetic to Marxism in general, but that’s not the main thrust of the meme so I’ll just say “Marxists aren’t inherently tankies” and leave it at that.
I suppose the question is how do you go from state to no state in one fell swoop?
A functional stateless society would be a generational undertaking not an overnight revolution, anarchists who believe otherwise are in the above picture.
I mean that sounds just like, Marxism-Leninism withering of the state kinda line really so that’s what I get confused on unless you’re saying that MLs are fundamentally anarchists in that they strive for a stateless society (eventually)
Typically, the idea of Marxists is to use the state apparatus to dismantle the state apparatus in the end.
Typically, the idea of anarchists is to build parallel structures outside of the state apparatus until the state apparatus is no longer able to resist the alternate power base deciding to dissolve the state.
That’s the first question, the second question is where do you bury all the damn bodies?
The third question is: “Oh shit, did we just kill all the farmers? Anybody know how to grow food?”
This is the point you really hope you’re not ukrainian. Or, just, any Asians really.