• @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    616 hours ago

    I thought we all agreed that “immutable” is a confusing term and that we should call it “atomic”

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      11
      edit-2
      12 hours ago

      I disagree, because they are not the same thing.

      Immutable means read only root.

      Atomic means that updates are done in a snapshotted manner somehow. It usually means that if an update fails, your system is not in a half working state, but instead will be reverted to the last working state, and that updates are all or nothing.

      I create a btrfs snapshot before updates on my Arch Linux system. This is atomic, but not immutable.*

      There is also “image based” which distros like ublue (immutable, atomic) are, but Nixos (also immutable and atomic) are not.

      *only really before big updates tbh, but I know people do configure snapshits before all updates.

      • @grue
        link
        English
        513 hours ago

        It means a change either applied completely and successfully, or not at all (think “atomic transactions” in databases).

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        413 hours ago

        Atomic in software refers to an operation that cant be interrupted because it happens in one step. This one of the big selling points of atomic or immutable distros. Your system will not be left in a broken state by cancelling an update because updates do not take multiple steps, unlike traditional distros.

      • @Deckweiss
        link
        -313 hours ago

        How could you install anything or change any setting if it was truly immutable?

        Immutable OS makes sense in certain scenarios, but not in home computing.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        313 hours ago

        Fedora has pushed for the change by rebranding their immutable distros as Fedora Atomic Desktops, and these are likely the most popular immutable distros. Bazzite’s homepage also describes the distro as atomic, but never mentions the term immutable.

    • Virkkunen
      link
      fedilink
      -314 hours ago

      How is atomic less confusing? Immutable means that something doesn’t change, atomic means that it’s the size of an atom or has nuclear energy

      EDIT: I’ve learned that some people are overly pedantic about the meaning and practical use of the word “immutable”, so much so that they decided to create a bigger confusion by giving another word a completely different and exclusive meaning

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        6
        edit-2
        13 hours ago

        Atomic in software refers to an operation that cannot be interrupted, like the updates in these distros. Immutable is a more confusing term, as it leads users to believe that cannot control parts of the system, when in reality these distros still have tools to do so.

      • @Deckweiss
        link
        013 hours ago

        How could you install anything or change any setting if it “doesn’t change” ?

        • @dustyData
          link
          English
          210 hours ago

          Settings live in user space. Software exist in containers like AppImage, Flatpak or Distrobox. If something need deep system integration, they can be layered on top of the system in the user layer. Immutable does NOT mean less control. Just exerting control over the system in a different, usually more systematic, automatic and deterministic way.

          • @Deckweiss
            link
            07 hours ago

            Ah yes, the immutable OS, except for all of the various mutable parts.

            We should totally not call it anything less confusing.