It seems to me that Republicans and the Christian Nationalists they are in bed with are going to be immovably pro-Israel. How do we prevent our government from participating in this genocide as these new politicians take power?

  • @Lauchs
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    512 days ago

    Both claims are debatable.

    Do you think things won’t get worse under trump? Or do you think some 50,000 dead a year is the worst Israel can do?

    • @[email protected]
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      -212 days ago

      The claim that Isrsel is currently performing a genocide on the Palestinians is not debatable. They have cut off the entirety of Northern Gaza and started executing everyone they see on site. They besieged the only remaining hospital there several times and imprisoned all but a couple of the staff. They are deliberately trying to starve the population and even went so far as banning the UNRWA, which is the only agency capable of keeping the Palestinians alive. And do you think that once they finish there they’ll stop? They will continue with the rest of Gaza once they are done. They’ve even started attacking and demolishing homes in the West Bank as well. And they’re trying to invade Lebanon as well like they have tried to in the past.

      Saying things will get worse under Trump is pointless. The genocide is underway, and it’s been blessed by the Biden administration as well as the Democratic party. Harris has made it clear she doesn’t plan on deviating from this course. So I stand by previous statement, Harris would not have saved them. Either one as president, the Palestinians die.

      • @Lauchs
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        011 days ago

        That’s a wildly privileged set of statements. Declaring that a bad thing id happening and it doesn’t matter if it gets worse, goddamn kid.

        • @[email protected]
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          111 days ago

          It’s privilege to say “Trust me it can get worse even as an extermination campaign is underway and other countries are being invaded”.

          The escalations that are coming in the next few months would have happened with Harris as well. Both political parties have made it abundantly clear that Israel can do whatever it wants. There are no red lines for them.

          • @Lauchs
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            111 days ago

            It’s not even privilege, just wildly ignorant or childish to see something horrible and decide “yup, can’t get worse than that!”

            If you literally don’t understand that trump and Harris will have very different red lines, you don’t know enough to talk about this.

            • @[email protected]
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              11 days ago

              Buddy what part of the genocide of the Palestinians is already happening do you not understand? You want to sit there and say that Trump will genocide them even harder? The delusion of saying “Trust me, Harris will save the Palestinians” when she vocalized nothing but staunch support of Israel is what led the Democrats to lose all the Arab voters. The genocide of the Palestinians is already underway and Harris has made it clear she doesn’t intend on stopping it.

              • @Lauchs
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                19 days ago

                The older you get, the more you’ll realize it’s okay and even a good idea to just say “I don’t really know about this.”

                To say that Harris and trump mean the same thing for the Palestinians is outright nonsensical. Some of the Israeli ministers (notably Smotrich) have been very explicit about the fact that trump’s win, among other things, makes annexation of the West Bank much more likely.

                There’s a lot of background that you kind of really have to be in the weeds to catch but if you’ve been reading Foreign Policy and others, you’d know that while the Biden administration ought to have done more, there were still some red lines (annexation, hitting Iranian oil/nuclear facilities etc.) With trump in charge, it’s unclear which if any red lines still exist.

                It’s a humanitarian crisis but to claim that Harris and trump mean the same thing is as downright silly as you can get. Saying things that are patenly nonsensical makes you look pretty danged silly.

                • @[email protected]
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                  9 days ago

                  There’s a lot I don’t know true. But there’s a lot I know as well. For example, I know that in Israel Netanyahu is ridiculously unpopular at the moment and is under criminal investigation. I know the only reason he’s still in power is because of a group of hard-right fanatics in the Knesset like Ben Gvir. I know this group has been pushing for the complete eradication of the Palestinians for some time now, including annexing the West Bank, and they are finally seizing on the moment. I also know that they are the ones pushing for a regional war with Iran. I know that the only one in Netanyahu’s war council who vocally said this war shouldn’t continue was the recently fired Defence Minister Yoav Gallant and was replaced with someone who wanted to continue the war. I know that lobbying groups such as AIPAC have spent a ridiculous amount of money lobbying the American Senate and Congress to let Israel do what they want. I know that Biden has received more money from these groups than any other senator in history. I know that Harris has repeatedly said that “Israel has a right to defend itself” even as they slaughter their way through innocents. I know that Tim Walz has said that he supports Israels right to expand it’s borders as they escalate the conflict with Lebanon and Iran. I know that Harris chose to campaign with war hawks like Liz Cheney in an effort to win Republican voters while ignoring a lot of Democrat voters.

                  You started this thread by implying that voting for Harris would have saved the Palestinians. I’m telling you that everything points to her not doing a dam thing. You want to sit there and talk about how maybe she would have talked them down from creating a regional war with Iran? Sure, go for it buddy. Maybe she would have. But don’t sit there and pretend like she, or the majority of Democrats, actually cared enough to stop Israel from performing their little genocide. Or the invasion of Lebanon for that matter. If they did, they would have done so by now. They chose to stick their head in the sand and pretend it wasn’t an issue. Meanwhile they literally lost all 7 of the swing states because of this attitude. The Arabs definitely made her lose Michigan, and there’s a strong case to be made that they could have helped her win Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

                  • @Lauchs
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                    19 days ago

                    But there’s a lot I know as well.

                    See, I think this is the issue. You’ve shared some of the very basics. Most explainer articles should (and do) include this info. And I think you’re confusing knowing a handful of basics with something approaching authority. Admittedly, I imagine you have given more context than most Tiktoks, so yay?

                    Here are a few other basics but that add context and illuminate the difference between Harris and trump:

                    About half of Palestinians live in the West Bank, which has basically been off limits for Israeli military incursions, despite the far right. In large part because of American red lines, Israel has mostly left the West Bank alone in this conflict.

                    The United State’s policy on Israel/Palestine has been to advocate for a 2 state solution (which the PLO has walked away from, repeatedly.) Donald already shred any pretense of supporting a 2 state solution when he recognized Jerusalem as capital of Israel. For the loudest and most loyal part of his base, the evangelicals, Israel must own all of its own territory in order to bring about the End Times. (yay.) So, there’s a definite possibility that trump actively encourages Israel to ramp up their move to a 1 apartheidish state and West Bank becomes Gaza without the restraint.

                    And yes, you might complain that Gaza is unrestrained but that’s pretty silly. Some 40k Palestinians have died, which is too many but at that rate, the war could go on for another half century and more than half the Palestinians would be around. (And of course, if you note that most of the casualties were in the first 4 months after Hamas murdered and/or raped more than a thousand civilians, and “only” ~ 10K have died since Februaryish, well, you should realize that’s a deaccelerating conflict.) Unfortunately, trump means that hard right/Bibi have a good chance of escalating things right back up. (The Biden administration has demanded more aid etc in exchange for continued support, something that’s highly unexpected from a trump administration.)

                    Meanwhile, somewhere between 2-3 million Palestinians, who don’t have the first world luxury to ignorantly declare things are the going to be the same, know how much worse things are about to get.

                    And of course on the American side, the notion that Harris would be able to override Biden while she’s VP is lunacy. Pray tell, when is the last time you saw a VP undermine their boss like that? (The closest I can think of was when Biden let slip that the administration was moving to codify gay marriage, but that’s not even close to the same ballpark.) Arguing for a radically different path while in office but without any authority is similarly nonsensical. (If the Harris administration would be different, that incentives Israel to go much harder now while they can and puts Biden into a no win scenario.)

                    Would I have liked the Democrats to do more? Absolutely. But to say that because Palestinians in Gaza are dying those in the West Bank should too suggests you are too ignorant to know the difference between Gaza and West Bank or too racist to care.

                    Finally, I’ll remind you that the original question was what can America do to prevent the situation from worsening. Electing Harris over trump is a no brainer move to prevent things from getting as bad as they can under trump. Then electing progressive Dems in the primaries so they can move Harris on this. With trump in power, the Democratic primaries and midterms are relatively meaningless and unlikely to help the Palestinians.