- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Summary
Donald Trump’s 2024 campaign has reignited fears among undocumented migrants with promises of “mass deportations” and migrant communities are bracing for uncertainty and a new wave of nativism.
His administration plans to target those deemed public safety or national security threats, potentially reinstating workplace raids and using military resources.
Advocates warn that “collateral arrests” could sweep up migrants without criminal records.
Many, like “Dreamers” protected under DACA, fear family separations, while others, such as Carlos in NYC, hope Trump’s economic policies might benefit them.
“A lot of Latinos, those who can vote, did so because they think he [Trump] can improve the economy. That would be very good for us too,” said Carlos, an undocumented Mexican who lives in New York City.
First off, before I continue. I voted blue.
But it’s naive to not see voting as transactional. Even more so when major issues face America and humanity, has tested and proven solutions.
For example, Healthcare. The solution to America’s Healthcare crisis is Universal health care. With the middle ground between Universal and fully private is the public option. Neither party would even entertain the notion of a public opinion. The Democratic party could have secured millions of votes if they added public option or universal to their platform. They knew this. All the polling said those were overwhelming popular positions to have. It’s poor leadership and poor advising that kept Harris from having that.
Several polls and Arab, Palestinian, and liberal organizations told the party, that not having a concrete plan to save Palestinian lives would cost Harris millions of votes. It’s poor leadership and advising to not have Palestinian sovereignty and return to post ww2 boarders as part of the campaign. It’s not like Christian evangelicals and zionest were going to vote blue anyways? So why not appeal to your base and a large voting demographic?
I can go on with several other progressive topics. (education, military spending, justice reform, foreign policy, wealth redistribution, climate, money on politics, ect.) So many progressive solutions to very real problems were never addressed or openly opposed by Democrats. The only downside to taking up those causes would have been money from top donors.
Voting is inherently transactional and will always be that way. For “my” vote your platform must have zxy and you must try to get as close to xyz as possible. If you don’t have xyz why should I vote for you? You don’t care about my issues and values, why should I care about yours. It’s the world we live in. Either the democrats take up a full progressive agenda or they’ll continue to lose in the most critical time in human history.
because in an effectively two party system where neither party has xyz you should definitely vote for the party that also aren’t nazi’s ?
The degree of closeness to your ideal of progressive policies doesn’t mean shit when the choice is nazi’s vs not nazi’s.
Unless you are arguing that those weren’t the choices available here ?
Yes everyone understands all that. But are you saying we people that vote blue should keep trying the same failing tactics?
If our strategies (manly from leadership and keyboard warriors) keeps failing against literal Nazies, shouldn’t we change tactics?!
What other options do we have!? Keep openly ignoring solutions that the majority of Americans want? Or go crying about the none voters that feel the is no party representing them?
You don’t like it but look around!
Seriously, what why do you think the none nazi party can get more votes? Times running out and we are losing! Either come up with another answer or keep saying things that obviously lost us an election to Nazies.
Support Universal health care or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support a 2 state solution in Palestine or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support redistribution of wealth or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support the removal of money in politics or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
Support justice system reform or get the Nazies again. What side are you on?
If you expect a different result with what we’ve been doing than we truly are doomed. What’s the definition of insanity again?
No, but if your tactic changes haven’t been implemented by the time voting comes around and the choice remains “nazi’s vs not nazi’s” then you should be voting “not nazi’s”.
“The Dems continue to fuck up repeatedly, so i can understand why people chose nazi this time” isn’t a tenable argument.
I’m not disagreeing with your disappointment in, well, everything.
I’m disagreeing with this part of your previous reply
If a person understands that the choice is nazi vs not nazi and then actively chooses to not vote, they are tacitly choosing nazi.
“If i vote for the not-nazi’s, they won’t understand how disappointed in them i am” is not a good argument.
“Their policies don’t align with what i want” is not a good argument
“They don’t represent my values” is not a good argument
There is no good beginning half to the sentence “< INSERT REASON HERE >, so i tacitly enabled the nazi’s”
Except maybe, “I genuinely believe the alternative is worse, so i tacitly enabled the nazi’s”.
Even then i’d probably disagree, but it would be a substantive argument.
My argument is. Why keep doing a failed strategy? We know how a center right Democratic party ends. Either they lose and Nazies run ramped or they win and the Nazies gain ground until the next election.
Sure, as i said, i don’t disagree with that.
What does that argument have to do with whether or not people should assigned some responsibility for how they voted (or didn’t) ?