To me, yeah, Eternal feels like they upgraded the ethos of old-school DOOM with contemporary mechanics. They both feel like bullet hell games, in a way.
2016, on the other hand, felt more like Titanfall 2, to be honest, an adventure FPS with hardcore mechanics, and narrative gameplay (feels like it tells more of a story through the context, combat and environment than Eternal does - Eternal feels more like themed arenas to me, just like the originals).
Which is why I can’t bring myself to finish Eternal!:)) I’ve played through about 75% of the Campaign and I always try to find as many secrets as possible, but I just don’t feel the pull to go through with it… Every time I try, it just makes me wanna reinstall 2016.
That’s so interesting! It shows that people do value very different things for the same experiences - that’s awesome. I value story-telling a lot and enjoy environmental story-telling too - duh, check the community - but DOOM 2016 felt a little too cryptic to me at times. Maybe it’s to do with me not having been into this narrative style yet back when I played the game but it felt like the game dragged on too long. I hindsight, I probably would enjoy the game’s narrative a little more today. But the gameplay just feels so slow compared to Eternal’s if that makes sense. It’s a different style of gameplay in a way though, so that’s fine.
I had the same experience with Eternal, sorta, in that I couldn’t make myself finish the game, the only reason being is that I get bored of games a little too quickly for my taste. I think I was missing like 3 levels or so and wanted to move on to the DLC but put it off for ages. Finally got around to it again, enjoyed the couple remaining levels and got the wind blown out of my sails with the final boss of the game. Actually had to turn the difficulty down because the fight was so frustrating to me lol. And didn’t get to play the DLC either despite owning it.
Will you be checking out the upcoming DOOM game? What’s it called, The Dark Ages, or something?
Yepyep, I get what you mean by slower pace, and I agree! 2016 felt like a rhythm game, whereas Eternal gets very frantic. Dunno, maybe that’s why I love it, it also synchronises really well with the soundtrack, so the entire game feels like tech-stepping your way through a demon mosh pit, if it makes sense. It’s also not as difficult once you get into the rhythm of things, and the missing extra movement mechanics they’ve added in Eternal do slow it down even more. But I’m coming at it more as an Unreal Tournament 2004 player than a DOOM player.
You may also be right about enjoying 2016 more now, it has sooo many subtle elements strewn across the maps, almost like exploring the game more than I do killing the demons!
Oooh, yes, it is an unexpectedly difficult game at the worst of times! Feels overtuned waaay too often (which is another element 2016 gets better, imo, as it’s a bit more flexible in how it allows you to approach a combat situation), even down to jump distances - there have been many ledges I failed to reach because I didn’t wait for the very last millimetre of ground before pressing Space.
And you’ve hit the nail on the head, winded! That’s exactly how I felt by the time I stopped playing, winded. Played it through on Medium/Normal/whatever because it’s one of my fixations, but it sure was a slog at times…
Now that I think about it, I also like DS2 more than 1 or 3 for many of the same reasons, so it may just be me:))
Edit because I forgot: I didn’t even know they were planning on making another one! I’ll probably check it out, but Eternal taught me to manage my expectations, unfortunately…
Never played UT since I didn’t grow up with it. First FPS experiences I’ve had were CS 1. 6 that I watched my older brother play, Turok, Star Wars Battlefront, that kinda stuff. Must feel cool to have a game somewhat similar in style then?
You take the good with the bad, I guess. Most of the time, traversal and jump’n’run sections work quite well, especially in combat. Some platforming sections felt a little off, tho, true.
So you’re a contrarian then :P Can’t comment on DS2 since I haven’t played it at all but from what I’ve heard, some people enjoy it the most because it had the freshest ideas of them all and felt like a good continuation of DS1. DS3, while great and regarded as the second best I’d wager, fails a little when it comes to the story and lore - kinda like DS1,5. Again, just paraphrasing what I’ve heard - haven’t finished any DS myself.
Cautious optimism :D I’ll see if I’ll pick the game up for cheap some time after release. Not in a hurry
Those are all good titles in and of themselves, and Turok came closest to UT in terms of combat feel, if I remember correctly:-? It does feel nice, not gonna lie! Especially since reflex shooters seem to have diminished in popularity. Luckily, though, UT2004 still thoroughly stands up as a deathmatch machine, so at least there’s that!:))
Don’t get me wrong, I did appreciate the increase in complexity in terms of verticality, traversal, combat, everything! I just think they didn’t have to be so… mean with the implementations?:))
Nah, more like very specific:))) DS2 is to DS1 and 3 as Silent Hill 2 is to Silent Hill 1 and 3, as I see it. It’s a more intimate story, even down to the stakes. I liked that “we’re just out to look for a cure” theme, it simultaneously made the goal more relatable, but it also eased the pressure of having the world’s fate on our shoulders. And it’s far more melancholic than the other two, as well! DS3 has some places where it achieves that atmosphere, but otherwise they’re unique to DS2. And I enjoyed the new mechanics, too! It’s the only one in which I truly feel comfortable not using a shield and engaging groups, other than Elden Ring.
And just to give you more reason to call me a contrarian, I guess, I prefer DS3 over DS1. Sure, I miss the intertwined level designs from the first, but the characters are more complex in their portrayals, I found, the themes it covers fit well in terms of “this is the last one, let us do something else now,” the mechanics are far more refined, the combat is more fluid… If someone were to remake DS2 with DS3’s mechanical refinement, that would be a perfect game for me!
True, that seems to be the best choice either way, given how positively broken most games are at launch nowadays…
I’ll see if I give 2016 another go :) Have quite a huge backlog :x
I totally get what you mean :D
Oh yea, I feel you. It does sound right up my alley since I feel like most media these days goes for bigger, better, more grand storylines and just loses itself in the weeds. For example, Stranger Things 1 was a very confined story, limited to the scope of the town, the protagonists and a single unknown entity that was unnatural and unexplainable. By the end of series, so far it least, we’ve got five different storylines at the same, a cast of like 20 people all with varying degrees of importance to the overall plot, and suuuper high stakes. It sounds like DS2 is more like ST1 then, in a sense? I don’t know if that comparison makes sense :D
I think if I got around to playing the games, I’d dig DS3 more than DS1 too. I appreciate DS1 for its significance for the genre and trailblazing, but so much of the game feels really dated. Bloodborne was my first soulslike and DS3, at least what I’ve played so far, didn’t feel too far away from that. Now DS2.3, that’d be something :D
I don’t think the game will be that expensive too further down the line. I think I snatched Eternal for like 20€ a couple years ago
Essentially, yes, somewhere thereabouts! You have around the same amount of secondary “friendly” characters (and it does the whole hub area waaay better than DS3, imho, it’s much more organic and beautiful) as the other games and the world is really huge and metaphorical, but it’s personal quests all the way down. All of the heroes of myth you meet are either stuck, or crestfallen. The others either want to become better salespersons, reunite with family, seek fortune, or are just bored and want to see this thing unfold for lack of something better to do (this is a personal observation, but I’m 100% certain that’s one of the secondary characters’ main deal, which is why she’s my favourite❤️). The whole world is permeated by a thick languor reflected in many of the bosses, too! One of them is the best “remix” of Sisyphus I’ve ever seen in a video game!
Oh, yep, then DS3 would most certainly be more your speed. And a DS2 Remake/Update is in the pipeline, I’m sure of it:)) Same must be coming for DS3, too, at one point.
Have you tried Elden Ring at all? It’s not as fast as Bloodborne, although it’s faster than Dark Souls 3 in terms of zippiness in combat. Also significantly increased mobility due to the whole open world thing. Worth it even just for the exploration, it’s a world thick with meaning! And, yes, Malenia is everything they say she is, in case you haven’t learnt that yourself yet:)))
Man, you’re selling it well. Almost feel like I should just skip DS1 and DS3 and go for 2 immediately. I just know the Majula theme and I’m kinda sold already :D
DS3 remaster seems to be on the horizon already. DS2 would be the only one missing then
Yup, almost finished. Can’t get myself to slug through Radagon + Elden Beast, haven’t bought the DLC yet. Kinda burnt out on the game because the open world, while very pretty and easily one of the best ones out there, is just kind of annoying to navigate at some point. Just so much filler and “unnecessary” forced exploration. I like tight, focused experiences more like all prior FS games. My top three are Sekiro, Lies of P and Bloodborne, in that order, for reference. ER is just a tad too big for my taste. It’s still an amazing game and an open-world game done right, but it doesn’t lend itself to repeat playthrough that well, I feel like
And yea, Malenia is pain. Haven’t defeated her and probably won’t. She’s like Isshin-level difficult but you have the tools of a random NPC brute (joking obviously but kinda feels like it)
I used to idle for literally hours in Majula just listening to the theme and the sounds of distant waves crashing. Once it fills up a bit, you can hear small signs of life, like the blacksmith muttering something to himself, another NPC humming something very softly, it’s lovely! And if I’m selling it, means I’m doing right by the game, I really do believe it’s an underappreciated classic. And even without the remake, it still holds up very well! It quickened the pace of combat and made a lot more tactics viable, the results of those experiments can be felt throughout the later installments. Completely worth the playthrough, and it took me about 60 hours (not 100%) my first time around, when skill issues were a legitimate problem:)) They still are, but I’d wager a “close enough” completionist run would take about 60-70-ish hours considering you’re fresh off of ER. And it’s well worth taking your time with that one.
Oh, I think you may be a bit further along than I am, I’m at Malenia, but in the middle of taking another break from the game:)) I played it exclusively for 180 hours, then I stopped a couple of years ago. Got burnt out as well, and the bosses started turning into spammers and sponges, so I needed to stop. I do come back to it every now and again, though, it just feels really nice to explore the world and idle in Moonwaifu’s tower:)) Gathering my courage to finally finish it, though.
If I may, you’ve mentioned you prefer tighter experiences, in which case I strongly suggest you consider trying out Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon, too. It’s a sortie-based game, takes around 20-30 hours, but it’s so FromSoft, it’s ridiculous! The “true” ending can only be achieved after at least three playthroughs, each of which change the narrative in very significant ways, and exist somehow parallel, yet intertwined with each other. It’s great, it’s philosophical, it’s surprisingly and endearingly heartfelt, and the combat is Bloodborne on crack, with big guns, flying robots, ridiculous amounts of missiles, and really cool environments! I consider it to be well within the Soulsborne area, even though it doesn’t cover all of the standard elements.
![[DS] Pinwheel Lore](https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/8feddcfb-6ad9-4983-a95a-e0e5871c53e9.webp){kind=link}
To me, yeah, Eternal feels like they upgraded the ethos of old-school DOOM with contemporary mechanics. They both feel like bullet hell games, in a way.
2016, on the other hand, felt more like Titanfall 2, to be honest, an adventure FPS with hardcore mechanics, and narrative gameplay (feels like it tells more of a story through the context, combat and environment than Eternal does - Eternal feels more like themed arenas to me, just like the originals).
Which is why I can’t bring myself to finish Eternal!:)) I’ve played through about 75% of the Campaign and I always try to find as many secrets as possible, but I just don’t feel the pull to go through with it… Every time I try, it just makes me wanna reinstall 2016.
That’s so interesting! It shows that people do value very different things for the same experiences - that’s awesome. I value story-telling a lot and enjoy environmental story-telling too - duh, check the community - but DOOM 2016 felt a little too cryptic to me at times. Maybe it’s to do with me not having been into this narrative style yet back when I played the game but it felt like the game dragged on too long. I hindsight, I probably would enjoy the game’s narrative a little more today. But the gameplay just feels so slow compared to Eternal’s if that makes sense. It’s a different style of gameplay in a way though, so that’s fine.
I had the same experience with Eternal, sorta, in that I couldn’t make myself finish the game, the only reason being is that I get bored of games a little too quickly for my taste. I think I was missing like 3 levels or so and wanted to move on to the DLC but put it off for ages. Finally got around to it again, enjoyed the couple remaining levels and got the wind blown out of my sails with the final boss of the game. Actually had to turn the difficulty down because the fight was so frustrating to me lol. And didn’t get to play the DLC either despite owning it.
Will you be checking out the upcoming DOOM game? What’s it called, The Dark Ages, or something?
Yepyep, I get what you mean by slower pace, and I agree! 2016 felt like a rhythm game, whereas Eternal gets very frantic. Dunno, maybe that’s why I love it, it also synchronises really well with the soundtrack, so the entire game feels like tech-stepping your way through a demon mosh pit, if it makes sense. It’s also not as difficult once you get into the rhythm of things, and the missing extra movement mechanics they’ve added in Eternal do slow it down even more. But I’m coming at it more as an Unreal Tournament 2004 player than a DOOM player.
You may also be right about enjoying 2016 more now, it has sooo many subtle elements strewn across the maps, almost like exploring the game more than I do killing the demons!
Oooh, yes, it is an unexpectedly difficult game at the worst of times! Feels overtuned waaay too often (which is another element 2016 gets better, imo, as it’s a bit more flexible in how it allows you to approach a combat situation), even down to jump distances - there have been many ledges I failed to reach because I didn’t wait for the very last millimetre of ground before pressing Space.
And you’ve hit the nail on the head, winded! That’s exactly how I felt by the time I stopped playing, winded. Played it through on Medium/Normal/whatever because it’s one of my fixations, but it sure was a slog at times…
Now that I think about it, I also like DS2 more than 1 or 3 for many of the same reasons, so it may just be me:))
Edit because I forgot: I didn’t even know they were planning on making another one! I’ll probably check it out, but Eternal taught me to manage my expectations, unfortunately…
Never played UT since I didn’t grow up with it. First FPS experiences I’ve had were CS 1. 6 that I watched my older brother play, Turok, Star Wars Battlefront, that kinda stuff. Must feel cool to have a game somewhat similar in style then?
You take the good with the bad, I guess. Most of the time, traversal and jump’n’run sections work quite well, especially in combat. Some platforming sections felt a little off, tho, true.
So you’re a contrarian then :P Can’t comment on DS2 since I haven’t played it at all but from what I’ve heard, some people enjoy it the most because it had the freshest ideas of them all and felt like a good continuation of DS1. DS3, while great and regarded as the second best I’d wager, fails a little when it comes to the story and lore - kinda like DS1,5. Again, just paraphrasing what I’ve heard - haven’t finished any DS myself.
Cautious optimism :D I’ll see if I’ll pick the game up for cheap some time after release. Not in a hurry
Those are all good titles in and of themselves, and Turok came closest to UT in terms of combat feel, if I remember correctly:-? It does feel nice, not gonna lie! Especially since reflex shooters seem to have diminished in popularity. Luckily, though, UT2004 still thoroughly stands up as a deathmatch machine, so at least there’s that!:))
Don’t get me wrong, I did appreciate the increase in complexity in terms of verticality, traversal, combat, everything! I just think they didn’t have to be so… mean with the implementations?:))
Nah, more like very specific:))) DS2 is to DS1 and 3 as Silent Hill 2 is to Silent Hill 1 and 3, as I see it. It’s a more intimate story, even down to the stakes. I liked that “we’re just out to look for a cure” theme, it simultaneously made the goal more relatable, but it also eased the pressure of having the world’s fate on our shoulders. And it’s far more melancholic than the other two, as well! DS3 has some places where it achieves that atmosphere, but otherwise they’re unique to DS2. And I enjoyed the new mechanics, too! It’s the only one in which I truly feel comfortable not using a shield and engaging groups, other than Elden Ring.
And just to give you more reason to call me a contrarian, I guess, I prefer DS3 over DS1. Sure, I miss the intertwined level designs from the first, but the characters are more complex in their portrayals, I found, the themes it covers fit well in terms of “this is the last one, let us do something else now,” the mechanics are far more refined, the combat is more fluid… If someone were to remake DS2 with DS3’s mechanical refinement, that would be a perfect game for me!
True, that seems to be the best choice either way, given how positively broken most games are at launch nowadays…
I’ll see if I give 2016 another go :) Have quite a huge backlog :x
I totally get what you mean :D
Oh yea, I feel you. It does sound right up my alley since I feel like most media these days goes for bigger, better, more grand storylines and just loses itself in the weeds. For example, Stranger Things 1 was a very confined story, limited to the scope of the town, the protagonists and a single unknown entity that was unnatural and unexplainable. By the end of series, so far it least, we’ve got five different storylines at the same, a cast of like 20 people all with varying degrees of importance to the overall plot, and suuuper high stakes. It sounds like DS2 is more like ST1 then, in a sense? I don’t know if that comparison makes sense :D
I think if I got around to playing the games, I’d dig DS3 more than DS1 too. I appreciate DS1 for its significance for the genre and trailblazing, but so much of the game feels really dated. Bloodborne was my first soulslike and DS3, at least what I’ve played so far, didn’t feel too far away from that. Now DS2.3, that’d be something :D
I don’t think the game will be that expensive too further down the line. I think I snatched Eternal for like 20€ a couple years ago
Ooh, yeah, the pile is huge!:)))
Essentially, yes, somewhere thereabouts! You have around the same amount of secondary “friendly” characters (and it does the whole hub area waaay better than DS3, imho, it’s much more organic and beautiful) as the other games and the world is really huge and metaphorical, but it’s personal quests all the way down. All of the heroes of myth you meet are either stuck, or crestfallen. The others either want to become better salespersons, reunite with family, seek fortune, or are just bored and want to see this thing unfold for lack of something better to do (this is a personal observation, but I’m 100% certain that’s one of the secondary characters’ main deal, which is why she’s my favourite❤️). The whole world is permeated by a thick languor reflected in many of the bosses, too! One of them is the best “remix” of Sisyphus I’ve ever seen in a video game!
Oh, yep, then DS3 would most certainly be more your speed. And a DS2 Remake/Update is in the pipeline, I’m sure of it:)) Same must be coming for DS3, too, at one point.
Have you tried Elden Ring at all? It’s not as fast as Bloodborne, although it’s faster than Dark Souls 3 in terms of zippiness in combat. Also significantly increased mobility due to the whole open world thing. Worth it even just for the exploration, it’s a world thick with meaning! And, yes, Malenia is everything they say she is, in case you haven’t learnt that yourself yet:)))
Man, you’re selling it well. Almost feel like I should just skip DS1 and DS3 and go for 2 immediately. I just know the Majula theme and I’m kinda sold already :D
DS3 remaster seems to be on the horizon already. DS2 would be the only one missing then
Yup, almost finished. Can’t get myself to slug through Radagon + Elden Beast, haven’t bought the DLC yet. Kinda burnt out on the game because the open world, while very pretty and easily one of the best ones out there, is just kind of annoying to navigate at some point. Just so much filler and “unnecessary” forced exploration. I like tight, focused experiences more like all prior FS games. My top three are Sekiro, Lies of P and Bloodborne, in that order, for reference. ER is just a tad too big for my taste. It’s still an amazing game and an open-world game done right, but it doesn’t lend itself to repeat playthrough that well, I feel like
And yea, Malenia is pain. Haven’t defeated her and probably won’t. She’s like Isshin-level difficult but you have the tools of a random NPC brute (joking obviously but kinda feels like it)
I used to idle for literally hours in Majula just listening to the theme and the sounds of distant waves crashing. Once it fills up a bit, you can hear small signs of life, like the blacksmith muttering something to himself, another NPC humming something very softly, it’s lovely! And if I’m selling it, means I’m doing right by the game, I really do believe it’s an underappreciated classic. And even without the remake, it still holds up very well! It quickened the pace of combat and made a lot more tactics viable, the results of those experiments can be felt throughout the later installments. Completely worth the playthrough, and it took me about 60 hours (not 100%) my first time around, when skill issues were a legitimate problem:)) They still are, but I’d wager a “close enough” completionist run would take about 60-70-ish hours considering you’re fresh off of ER. And it’s well worth taking your time with that one.
Oh, I think you may be a bit further along than I am, I’m at Malenia, but in the middle of taking another break from the game:)) I played it exclusively for 180 hours, then I stopped a couple of years ago. Got burnt out as well, and the bosses started turning into spammers and sponges, so I needed to stop. I do come back to it every now and again, though, it just feels really nice to explore the world and idle in Moonwaifu’s tower:)) Gathering my courage to finally finish it, though.
If I may, you’ve mentioned you prefer tighter experiences, in which case I strongly suggest you consider trying out Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon, too. It’s a sortie-based game, takes around 20-30 hours, but it’s so FromSoft, it’s ridiculous! The “true” ending can only be achieved after at least three playthroughs, each of which change the narrative in very significant ways, and exist somehow parallel, yet intertwined with each other. It’s great, it’s philosophical, it’s surprisingly and endearingly heartfelt, and the combat is Bloodborne on crack, with big guns, flying robots, ridiculous amounts of missiles, and really cool environments! I consider it to be well within the Soulsborne area, even though it doesn’t cover all of the standard elements.