What expansion? The last two countries joined as result of Russian aggression. The ones before joined because they themselves had experienced that only the membership in a strong alliance can potentially safe them from annexation (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland [the last after a deal with literally Hitler]). And once again tell me, why would anyone be afraid of a defensive alliance growing when you don’t intend to invade said countries?
Don’t want to invade your neighbour? Then their NATo-membership is not a problem, hell how about trying to join yourselves?
Why would anyone be afraid of a defensive alliance growing?
Hypothetical question after which context is provided, “when you don’t want to invade them?” Asking a hypothetical question is not contradictory to doubting the expansion.
You went from implying no expansion has occurred, to implying such expansion is a good thing without any consequences, to finally preaching that all who hear your ‘wisdom’ should try joining NATO themselves.
Are these the differing stages of grief before acceptance of failure?
I was saying that there was no expansion before Russia declared war in violation of all international laws and treaties, and in violation of the treaty Russia signed that guarantees Ukrainian independence.
Afterwards NATO grew, whether you want to call to expansion which implies that it is the goal of NATO to grow and threaten its neighbours or you just call it grow which reflects the reality of countries voluntarily joining.
And my comparison was that you cannot threaten your neighbours with a potential war and then expect them to just await their fate without resistance. They have the right to join an alliance as has every sovereign state. They have the right to chose the political system they want as does every sovereign state.
But NO ONE has the right to change the outline of borders by means of war. The world has lost a few million people so that everyone should have learned that lesson. Russia was apparently on the toilet at the time
Who is “you”? I didn’t make any such claim. I commented to the conversation that you had with someone else, because I really didn’t see any contradiction.
So I certainly didn’t imply any of that.
I fail to see how the other person implied it is a good thing. The other person implied it is inconsequential if you don’t intend to attack. That isn’t good. Whether or not, that statement is accurate, is a different discussion, then whether or not a person implied that it is good.
I don’t understand what failure you are talking about but clearly you aren’t mistaken in with whom you are talking. But given what you wrote and based on that your understanding of the situation, I don’t understand where you see grief in what you think, was written.
I mean, it is valid perspective. You can doubt the existence while welcoming the existence and encouraging it. E.g. i doubt that there is a god, but I think the existence of a god would be good and I would welcome someone to be that god.
Again, I don’t see them saying what you think they said but if they did, it would be a valid perspective.
NATO expansion has no consequences right?
What expansion? The last two countries joined as result of Russian aggression. The ones before joined because they themselves had experienced that only the membership in a strong alliance can potentially safe them from annexation (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland [the last after a deal with literally Hitler]). And once again tell me, why would anyone be afraid of a defensive alliance growing when you don’t intend to invade said countries?
Don’t want to invade your neighbour? Then their NATo-membership is not a problem, hell how about trying to join yourselves?
You went full circle jerk implying no expansion exists, but then immediately contradicting yourself.
Where is the contradiction?
Doubting the expansion of NATO.
Hypothetical question after which context is provided, “when you don’t want to invade them?” Asking a hypothetical question is not contradictory to doubting the expansion.
I don’t understand why you quoted that.
You went from implying no expansion has occurred, to implying such expansion is a good thing without any consequences, to finally preaching that all who hear your ‘wisdom’ should try joining NATO themselves.
Are these the differing stages of grief before acceptance of failure?
I was saying that there was no expansion before Russia declared war in violation of all international laws and treaties, and in violation of the treaty Russia signed that guarantees Ukrainian independence.
Afterwards NATO grew, whether you want to call to expansion which implies that it is the goal of NATO to grow and threaten its neighbours or you just call it grow which reflects the reality of countries voluntarily joining.
And my comparison was that you cannot threaten your neighbours with a potential war and then expect them to just await their fate without resistance. They have the right to join an alliance as has every sovereign state. They have the right to chose the political system they want as does every sovereign state.
But NO ONE has the right to change the outline of borders by means of war. The world has lost a few million people so that everyone should have learned that lesson. Russia was apparently on the toilet at the time
Who is “you”? I didn’t make any such claim. I commented to the conversation that you had with someone else, because I really didn’t see any contradiction.
So I certainly didn’t imply any of that.
I fail to see how the other person implied it is a good thing. The other person implied it is inconsequential if you don’t intend to attack. That isn’t good. Whether or not, that statement is accurate, is a different discussion, then whether or not a person implied that it is good.
I don’t understand what failure you are talking about but clearly you aren’t mistaken in with whom you are talking. But given what you wrote and based on that your understanding of the situation, I don’t understand where you see grief in what you think, was written.
I mean, it is valid perspective. You can doubt the existence while welcoming the existence and encouraging it. E.g. i doubt that there is a god, but I think the existence of a god would be good and I would welcome someone to be that god.
Again, I don’t see them saying what you think they said but if they did, it would be a valid perspective.
ok tankie
Putin invading neutral countries proves that remaining neutral is stupid, and they should join NATO.