4G can track you to a few meters accuracy easily. Probably even better if you’re in a city. If cell response timings don’t give away your location, there’s a mechanism in your phone intended for emergency services that will have your phone turn on GPS and send back your current position automatically, initiated from over the network. Best to assume your carrier knows exactly where your phone is (as well as your car, as modern cars come with cellular modems as well).
mmWave 5G will give away your exact location all of the time. Exact as in down to the centimeter or less. The intent for 5G is to put a small transmitter on every street light so everyone gets gigabit internet everywhere.
This all works because these are active protocols. Passive protocols like RFID won’t be very useful for tracking people. It’s why airtags use Bluetooth and UWB for detection rather than RFID.
They have to be pretty obvious because they need to have a directed beam running at something like 12W per direction to get more than a few meters of range, and that assumes you have a massive antenna (credit card shaped at the very least) in visual range. In theory you could use beamforming to hide the antenna better but you’d be sucking in and continously transmitting a lot of power just to scan tags on cars.
It doesn’t make sense anyway. Everyone carrying at least one 4G capable device with them at all times these days. It they’re not, they probably have a mandatory cell phone/WiFi beacon/Bluetooth beacon of some sort embedded in their cars. The government can track everyone’s moves exactly if they wanted to, from kilometers away. Why waste kilowatts per street on RFID scanners when people give their location away for free anyway?
If these tags worked well enough for location tracking, I would’ve expected a lot more presence detection hardware for smart homes to use them.
Depends, what do you define as 5g? There’s multiple 5g frequencies.
There’s 5g that’s basically just 4g with some extra toppings (low band). I don’t really consider this 5g just because there isn’t any appreciable difference to the end user.
There’s the mid band which gets pretty good range, and much better speeds.
Then there’s the mmWave (high) bands which are VERY short range, but insane speeds.
But in cities basically all towers have been upgraded from 4g to the low band 5g. I almost never see my phone connected to good old 4g unless I’m way out in the middle of nowhere. (USA)
I’m suggesting that passive rfid is possible with transmitters, and there are 5g towers in lots of places, enough to track a person if a government was inclined. I see them every block in many city business centers.
Aa key trait of RFID is that it’s passive and only has a range of inches to maybe 5 feet. Even mmWave towers are typically out of that range, plus it needs active power. Tracking someone using their (actively powered) phones cell signal is incredibly easy, even with 4g. It’s shifting through all the data that’s hard and time consuming.
Identifying someone using 5g’s radio frequencies would technically quality as Radio Frequency IDentification. When people talk about RFID they’re typically referring to those passively powered key cards. Those key cards barely work when they’re an inch away from the object, let alone 5 feet away plus 0.5 cm of RF absorbing skin.
UHF RFID and the passive RFID injected into people’s skin are quite different technology. The credit card sized antenna combined with a directed radio signal (and a license plate scanner for backup) can do several meters, but a tag in your body won’t be readable beyond a few centimeters. Unless you use an active radio, of course, but then you need to power that radio somehow.
How many 5g towers are there?
4G can track you to a few meters accuracy easily. Probably even better if you’re in a city. If cell response timings don’t give away your location, there’s a mechanism in your phone intended for emergency services that will have your phone turn on GPS and send back your current position automatically, initiated from over the network. Best to assume your carrier knows exactly where your phone is (as well as your car, as modern cars come with cellular modems as well).
mmWave 5G will give away your exact location all of the time. Exact as in down to the centimeter or less. The intent for 5G is to put a small transmitter on every street light so everyone gets gigabit internet everywhere.
This all works because these are active protocols. Passive protocols like RFID won’t be very useful for tracking people. It’s why airtags use Bluetooth and UWB for detection rather than RFID.
The tower is where you can put an rfid scanner. There’s lots of them, they support power and network, and they aren’t obvious.
They have to be pretty obvious because they need to have a directed beam running at something like 12W per direction to get more than a few meters of range, and that assumes you have a massive antenna (credit card shaped at the very least) in visual range. In theory you could use beamforming to hide the antenna better but you’d be sucking in and continously transmitting a lot of power just to scan tags on cars.
It doesn’t make sense anyway. Everyone carrying at least one 4G capable device with them at all times these days. It they’re not, they probably have a mandatory cell phone/WiFi beacon/Bluetooth beacon of some sort embedded in their cars. The government can track everyone’s moves exactly if they wanted to, from kilometers away. Why waste kilowatts per street on RFID scanners when people give their location away for free anyway?
If these tags worked well enough for location tracking, I would’ve expected a lot more presence detection hardware for smart homes to use them.
Depends, what do you define as 5g? There’s multiple 5g frequencies.
There’s 5g that’s basically just 4g with some extra toppings (low band). I don’t really consider this 5g just because there isn’t any appreciable difference to the end user.
There’s the mid band which gets pretty good range, and much better speeds.
Then there’s the mmWave (high) bands which are VERY short range, but insane speeds.
https://www.rfwel.com/us/index.php/5g-nr-frequency-bands
But in cities basically all towers have been upgraded from 4g to the low band 5g. I almost never see my phone connected to good old 4g unless I’m way out in the middle of nowhere. (USA)
OP is asking if it’s possible to track someone.
I’m suggesting that passive rfid is possible with transmitters, and there are 5g towers in lots of places, enough to track a person if a government was inclined. I see them every block in many city business centers.
Aa key trait of RFID is that it’s passive and only has a range of inches to maybe 5 feet. Even mmWave towers are typically out of that range, plus it needs active power. Tracking someone using their (actively powered) phones cell signal is incredibly easy, even with 4g. It’s shifting through all the data that’s hard and time consuming.
Identifying someone using 5g’s radio frequencies would technically quality as Radio Frequency IDentification. When people talk about RFID they’re typically referring to those passively powered key cards. Those key cards barely work when they’re an inch away from the object, let alone 5 feet away plus 0.5 cm of RF absorbing skin.
As I stated previously, toll booth rfid work at 20+feet and 80+.
UHF RFID and the passive RFID injected into people’s skin are quite different technology. The credit card sized antenna combined with a directed radio signal (and a license plate scanner for backup) can do several meters, but a tag in your body won’t be readable beyond a few centimeters. Unless you use an active radio, of course, but then you need to power that radio somehow.