Let’s make Windows 10 the last version ever used!
*Sat. 28 Dec. 11h* Stage YELL #KDEEco 's Call To Action against e-waste driven by #Windows10.
*Mon. 30 Dec. 13-15h* B&B habitat join the BoF to organize a global #FreeSoftware campaign to raise awareness of Windows 10’s EoL in 2025, the role of software in #eWaste, and how independent, sustainable #FOSS is a solution to keep devices in use & out of the landfill.
https://fahrplan.alpaka.space/jugend-hackt-38c3-2024/talk/ST8NJA/
As someone who is way into the idea of Linux, wants to switch, and is very gun-shy about the million little programs and extensions I might not be able to replace, let me tell you what is required of anybody who is actually genuine in their desire to see Linux gain the traction it deserves:
Don’t ever tell anybody to read the manual again. Just answer the god damn question. It’s good when answers to basic, common problems are peppered around the internet like that; it’s dumb and wrong and weird to think of it as a thing to be avoided. If you’d like to put a link to the part of the manual where the questioner could have looked to find it, that’s cool, too. Don’t just leave the link–there’s a good chance they didn’t understand it and that’s why they’re asking. Maybe they just want a person-answer instead of a reference-manual-answer, and it’s good when the answer exists in both forms. Every answered question is a contribution.
I would go even further: the version of reality where Linux beats Windows and ushers in an era of community-centric open source dominance is populated by a Linux community that considers “rtfm”, “pebcac”, etc to be borderline bannable offenses. If you are a small, weak person, and want Linux to be your way of thinking you’re better than other people, you’ll drive question-askers away, back to Inferiority Land, using your knowledge to dunk on them instead of help them, and call it a win. These are the ugly bridge trolls, who may as well be paid Microsoft employees, keeping people away from your community, and a serious change of pace might yield much smoother adoption. At the very least, the community owes it to their own work to see how much smoother.
As someone considering the switch seriously, the knowledge that I may have to deal with people like that is absolutely, 100% a factor, and I am someone who has no qualms about telling someone on the internet to fuck off, so it’s gonna be more of an issue for many others who are more conflict-averse.
The Linux community needs to take very seriously whether it actually wants increased open source adoption, or if it wants to remain a tiny minority so that it has a nice, large majority to feel better than.
I always try to help new users. I was a beginner once so I know how it feels to be told to rtfm by some cunt. Half the time I have an issue i’ll search it up only to find some reddit post with someone asking the same question and getting shit on by elitists who have nothing going on in their own lives. In any case, if you ever need help I or someone else would be happy to help to the best of our ability.
I hate it when you Google an issue and all you can find is a Reddit thread of the same problem where the only response is someone saying to Google it
I’ll take that over the windows ‘support’ forums where the people with superuser titles don’t understand basic questions and the answer tends to be to see if it gets fixed in a future version of windows.
And those posts are a decade old because they were never fixed.
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Without offenses but it’s important to read instructions for anything in this life, the wash machine, robot cooking, your daily medication, etc., all of them have instructions.
Most people that says “read the documentation” is also tired of people that can’t read instructions how things works, and in this open source world everything minimum popular is well documented.
I feel Windows users lacks many documentation and people are used to click to .exe that claims to do what they need to do, or they just follow some random user on a forum.
When someone asks me to teach them to learn to programming, I tell them to just read documentation. No need to pay for extra courses or YouTube videos, most of the time you can learn it better and up to date if you go to the documentation.
Then, after you did the proper search, it would make sense to open a post asking for help to gurus, telling them the steps you followed providing context and logs, if you don’t do that, most experts would just ignore you if you can’t spend time reading docs, they won’t spend time solving your issue normally.
Pretty sure that’s their point: If the instructions are too complex or intimidating, particularly if they’re technically written, they may genuinely be unreadable to some users.
There’s a certain effect where, if something seems overwhelming, particularly if you already feared it might be, that will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And once the overwhelm starts, once it sounds even a little too complex for users to be confident in their understanding, the brain goes into panic mode and holds on to “aaaah I can’t do this”.
So yes, some people genuinely can’t read instructions because static instructions don’t talk to them, just at them, with no ability to respond and reassure if that panic hits. Human interaction often seems less intimidating because they can (ideally) respond to your confusion, reword just that part, hold your hand through the process, all of which instructions can’t.
Throwing them into the pool and telling them to learn swimming doesn’t help: It makes them want to leave. Learning to read docs is a skill itself that needs to be developed separately, but making it an entry barrier risks scaring people off before their investment of time and focus starts paying off.
Are those docs written or proofread by noobs? My experience with tech people (including myself, unfortunately) is that we tend to think in specific trained (or perhaps intuitive to us) patterns that don’t neatly map on how non-techies perceive and understand the world. If I try to explain something, I don’t even know where there are parts that I’d need to simplify, explain differently, what metaphors I could use to help understand and so on.
Of course, techies do want those details I’d have to omit for non-techies. Some guides do really well with a “simple” and an “advanced” version of instructions. However, “documentation” doesn’t always equal “guide”, and some docs are really just a dry list of functiond and syntax, which brings us back to the topic of having to learn to read docs.
…they’re already past the first threshold of “This is all way too much, I’ll never learn that”. Anyone willing to engage with programming already has conquered - or never had - that initial fear of not understanding stuff. For them, docs might not be much of a barrier, and if they’re well-written may be a good point for slightly more advanced stuff.
I’d argue they’ll still need an initial intro to “how to think like a programmer” (or rather, “like a computer, and to solve backwards from that”), but in any case, they’re not the target audience for “Linux as competitive desktop”.
Non-techies are, and to them, tech may well be scary. We need to account for that and ease them in by whatever means work best for them, if we want them to come to us, not what suits us best.
This 100% I’m the computer person in my social circles, and my head sometimes starts to hurt from reading less than ideal documentation. Granted those are usually for pretty involved stuff, but it’s pretty frustrating spending hours to chew through and not getting an answer after all.
I’d imagine it’s worse for people whose PC is not a hobby but a tool. You shouldn’t need to spend a lot of time and effort on a tool just to get it working right. That might be fine for a used bargain tool, but you don’t replace like half the world’s OS’s with a used bargain tool. That’s not what people want or need.
I think that is what you need to do to learn anything on computers… It’s a skill, yeah, you need to improve it and not get scared, I remember those feelings a time ago, and now I realize everything fixes if I just read the docs/issues. No need to ask, so I wish the best for you and remember always to read the docs before posting/asking.
Depends, if a noob tries to do something complex they won’t be able, let’s use common sense also here. Don’t try to do your own distro, but you can learn how Kdenlive works to edit a video or use
--helpon a command if you are not sure what it does or can do.If you don’t understand the technical details of the documentation, or you search for what are those technical details (that can solve your issues) or you are on the wrong documentation.
For a common user, if they want to play a game they just need to install Steam and enable the option to play Windows games on Linux, that would be the same as doing it on Windows, if the user doesn’t know how to do it, they search and some user or doc explains to go to the settings and enable it, or install steam via commands or using GUI.
If the application Kdenlive stopped to work without any error message, then you can go to the source git page and look for issues related, and you would appreciate a lot to find all the open source programs and dependencies with their own git pages to find recent issues reported (on Windows is harder as most stuff is hidden and closed).
But if Microsoft Office stop to work without any error message, then yeah, developers needs to send you random steps to hope it fixes your issues, and probably they won’t ask you the logs, not much doc to read for this case. I think they have some basic help steps like re-install, clean cache and reboot your device, that doesn’t really help when something is crashing hard.
If the documentation you’re reading is too technic then you need to improve your tech skills, there is nothing wrong learning how a desktop interface works (as example), in the future you will be able to adapt it to your needs, and it won’t force you to accept a change like with WinXP/Win7/Win8/Win10/Win11 interfaces.
Maybe 3 of 10 people that asked me that actually did anything, other people are just lazy that thinks the work of a programmer is easy, as a programmer we need to read many documentation for everything new or change or update on our development stuff. We not only read but also write documentation, to then, some random guy to ask something you have been writing on your own blog and documentation. Understand then if they just respond you telling to read the docs.
That’s the issue. The median user will get scared. They can’t accurately assess their own competence before they try it, and trying something new is scary. “What if I break something? What if I can’t undo it?” They won’t rely on docs or git pages or man pages or
--help(they may not want to touch the CLI at all), because ultimately, that would require them relying on their own understanding thereof.Impersonal docs, particularly if they’re not written with accessibility for laypeople in mind, can’t replace guides, and a general guide can’t replace specific advice, and none of these can replace the assurance of having a universally helpful support community that will hold their hand if they need it and reliably bail them out if something goes wrong. The median user cannot possibly teach themselves, because they lack the fundamental knowledge and confidence to even assess their level of understanding. You and I, we’re on the tech end of the distribution. We have a basic understanding and mindset. The median user does not.
They can’t trust themselves, so they need someone else to trust. If we want to welcome more people into the FOSS ecosystem in general and Linux in particular, we need to be that someone, and they need to know that they will have that support.
It’s not just about helping them, it’s about the public impression. If they google for assistance and only find threads telling people to RTFM, they’re scared to ask, scared to try even. The learning curve you take for granted, the skill “you need to improve”, looks a lot like a wall from that point of view.
Linux is still perceived as a rather technical thing. We need to cultivate the impression - and the community to back it up - that it’s not actually complicated, and that you’ll readily find people to help you if you take the leap.
Improving tech literacy is an important thing, no doubt, but you can’t get people on board by saying “you have to”. You have to coax them over by promising easy returns on a small investment of time and effort, then let their curiosity lead them further - if they need deeper skills at all.
Ah yes, because you have the choice of so many different documentations for everything, and all those documentations make sure to point out the others in case you landed on the wrong one for you.
Doesn’t have to be laziness. If your misconception is shattered, that’s a shock. If they don’t have anyone to ease them through that shock, they’ll do the most natural thing: stay away. If you make it easy to get into, you’ll surely have more success than by walling them off so that only those willing to climb can get into your walled garden.
This is why everything comes with a quick start 1 page guide AND a manual.