We all knew we needed it in fact it was one of the biggest criticisms of return of the Jedi.
In episode V attack of the VVVVV(That was a joke but this is serious) in episode 5, Yoda says: “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,”. Luke failed his trial in the spooky cave he then proceeded to go to Cloud City on Bespin defying Yoda, as Luke flies away his red tail lights illuminate Yoda in red
Obi-Wan Kenobi:
“That boy is our last hope.”
Yoda:
“No, there is another.”
Setting up Leah as the protagonist of the upcoming trilogy with Luke as the antagonist.
George Lucas was quoted as saying Luke was supposed to pick up Vader’s helmet at the end of Return of the Jedi and become the Sith Lord.
The reason episode VI was the original hated star wars is because they threw this story line away in favor of crowd pleasing l, that Plus they were the first to recycle the death Star plot.
More importantly it would have given StarWars as a whole anywhere to go at all instead of it being an obviously self contained trilogy. They sold the entire franchise for a quick buck.
That might have been an interesting dynamic. Follow the “Like father, like son” trope and showcase Leia as the counter. She’d have become a fantasy/sci-fi Ripley analogue.
I don’t know if I’d frame that was what the ending was “supposed” to be. Sounds like a spitballing session where Lucas both came up with, and then rejected the idea.
Kasdan immediately responded, “That’s what I think should happen” — but Lucas didn’t actually want to go that dark because “this is for kids.”
Sounds like nobody was stopping Lucas if that was what he’d wanted.
If all we had to go off from is the quote then I would agree but there is also concept art and leaked scripts but most importantly the empire strikes back was building thematically towards Luke turning to the dark side, I’m not sure how early he scraped the idea but he definitely had that as a goal in episode V.
That’s one possible direction, and I think because you favor it you are considering it the “true” and lost ending.
There was a lot of concept art, such as a volcano throne room that ended up being completely changed.
I think in the conversation between Lucas and Kasdan the fact that the idea seemed thrown out on the spot and novel means it wasn’t meticulously prepared for previously. Star Wars has never been as planned out as people think, it is full of soft retcons and handwaves. There’s a lot of concepts that get lost. Saying any given tossed off concept is what is “supposed” to have happened is just leaning into a personal preference.
Was the Volcano Throne room thrown out? See Episode III - Rogue One. He obviously wanted it and it did happen eventually but the earliest scripts for episode VI had him Join the sith, this would indicate that during the filming of Episode V he had that on his mind.
Yes the volcano throne was thrown out for the intended purpose. What I said:
There was a lot of concept art, such as a volcano throne room that ended up being completely changed.
Yes it was changed. It was later reworked into something else, just like a lot of concepts, but it didn’t appear in ROTJ as the Emperor’s throne room on the imperial capital. This was its original intended purpose, what would, in how you read things, be what was “supposed” to have happened in ROTJ. Obviously it didn’t get used that way.
the earliest scripts for episode VI had him Join the sith
this would indicate that during the filming of Episode V he had that on his mind.
Creative process is, well, a process. Han Solo was at one point supposed to have died in the carbonite freezing. Luke and Leia were being set up as possible love interests and then changed to siblings. Darth Vader was once intended to be a completely different person than Luke’s father with Obi-Wan’s story in ANH being completely on the level, that was then changed and made to fit with a smooth retcon line. Jabba was supposed to be some guy wearing a fur coat. Things changed from movie to movie, often with new creative directions conflicting with things placed into previous ones. I don’t think it is fair to point at something, especially something early in the process and dig in saying “this is how it was truly supposed to be”.
Even the idea of “Sith” as an full on ideology was something that had to get settled on. The word itself was used once prior to ROTJ (and not used in ROTJ) in a novelization as a full title for Darth Vader which was never elaborated on, and therefore could have meant anything. The Thrawn books which were written with notes from Lucas used “Dark Jedi” rather than “Sith” to describe Vader and the Emperor. It took a while for the word to be given a meaning as flipside ideology to the Jedi. That means even the idea of Luke picking up the helmet in ROTJ and turning evil wouldn’t have been “joining the Sith”, as that concept didn’t really exist yet.
We all knew we needed it in fact it was one of the biggest criticisms of return of the Jedi.
In episode V attack of the VVVVV(That was a joke but this is serious) in episode 5, Yoda says: “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,”. Luke failed his trial in the spooky cave he then proceeded to go to Cloud City on Bespin defying Yoda, as Luke flies away his red tail lights illuminate Yoda in red
Obi-Wan Kenobi: “That boy is our last hope.”
Yoda: “No, there is another.”
Setting up Leah as the protagonist of the upcoming trilogy with Luke as the antagonist.
George Lucas was quoted as saying Luke was supposed to pick up Vader’s helmet at the end of Return of the Jedi and become the Sith Lord.
The reason episode VI was the original hated star wars is because they threw this story line away in favor of crowd pleasing l, that Plus they were the first to recycle the death Star plot.
Edit: and Ewoks.
Then Disney would have gotten their kick-ass female lead (pending they write it correctly).
More importantly it would have given StarWars as a whole anywhere to go at all instead of it being an obviously self contained trilogy. They sold the entire franchise for a quick buck.
That might have been an interesting dynamic. Follow the “Like father, like son” trope and showcase Leia as the counter. She’d have become a fantasy/sci-fi Ripley analogue.
When did he say this?
https://gizmodo.com/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-star-wars-ret-1383276948
I don’t know if I’d frame that was what the ending was “supposed” to be. Sounds like a spitballing session where Lucas both came up with, and then rejected the idea.
Sounds like nobody was stopping Lucas if that was what he’d wanted.
If all we had to go off from is the quote then I would agree but there is also concept art and leaked scripts but most importantly the empire strikes back was building thematically towards Luke turning to the dark side, I’m not sure how early he scraped the idea but he definitely had that as a goal in episode V.
That’s one possible direction, and I think because you favor it you are considering it the “true” and lost ending.
There was a lot of concept art, such as a volcano throne room that ended up being completely changed.
I think in the conversation between Lucas and Kasdan the fact that the idea seemed thrown out on the spot and novel means it wasn’t meticulously prepared for previously. Star Wars has never been as planned out as people think, it is full of soft retcons and handwaves. There’s a lot of concepts that get lost. Saying any given tossed off concept is what is “supposed” to have happened is just leaning into a personal preference.
Was the Volcano Throne room thrown out? See Episode III - Rogue One. He obviously wanted it and it did happen eventually but the earliest scripts for episode VI had him Join the sith, this would indicate that during the filming of Episode V he had that on his mind.
Yes the volcano throne was thrown out for the intended purpose. What I said:
Yes it was changed. It was later reworked into something else, just like a lot of concepts, but it didn’t appear in ROTJ as the Emperor’s throne room on the imperial capital. This was its original intended purpose, what would, in how you read things, be what was “supposed” to have happened in ROTJ. Obviously it didn’t get used that way.
Creative process is, well, a process. Han Solo was at one point supposed to have died in the carbonite freezing. Luke and Leia were being set up as possible love interests and then changed to siblings. Darth Vader was once intended to be a completely different person than Luke’s father with Obi-Wan’s story in ANH being completely on the level, that was then changed and made to fit with a smooth retcon line. Jabba was supposed to be some guy wearing a fur coat. Things changed from movie to movie, often with new creative directions conflicting with things placed into previous ones. I don’t think it is fair to point at something, especially something early in the process and dig in saying “this is how it was truly supposed to be”.
Even the idea of “Sith” as an full on ideology was something that had to get settled on. The word itself was used once prior to ROTJ (and not used in ROTJ) in a novelization as a full title for Darth Vader which was never elaborated on, and therefore could have meant anything. The Thrawn books which were written with notes from Lucas used “Dark Jedi” rather than “Sith” to describe Vader and the Emperor. It took a while for the word to be given a meaning as flipside ideology to the Jedi. That means even the idea of Luke picking up the helmet in ROTJ and turning evil wouldn’t have been “joining the Sith”, as that concept didn’t really exist yet.
Uhm actually yoda was talking about cal kestis