As a Mac user I too want SteamOS to succeed, because it will indirectly result in more games that are compatible with macOS via game porting tools and wine.
Honestly windows is just annoying to deal with. I don’t like the ads, and I don’t like my start menu bar being reorganized. I run it in a VM and managing my install keys is a huge pain with their login system.
Linux is awesome, it’s neat watching its developer friendliness result in snowballing market share.
compatible with macOS via game porting tools and wine
How is moltenVK going by the way, assuming you follow that? I originally thought macOS gaming was dead when they ditched OpenGL and declined to support Vulkan, but maybe with layers of shims peoples still make it work.
If a SteamOS desktop system gets established, it would be time to add productive software to the ecosystem. Like a web browser, email, libreoffice, maybe some other tools. There are good free versions of all kinds of productivity software, and having them nicely packaged for a system like that would add a lot of value to the SteamOS driven family PC.
FYI, if you switch to Desktop mode on SteamOS, all those applications you listed are available via the included app store that taps into Flathub. SteamOS also ships with Firefox out of the box. I have them all installed on my SteamDeck already.
This is why both Google and Microsoft dumped untold billions of dollars into developing Azure (Microsoft) and Workspace (Google). Those OS agnostic corporate productivity suites are meant to keep those companies relevant.
M365 runs on Azure which is why is why I phrased it the way I did. Although in retrospect I should have said Azure / GCP or M365 / Workspace instead of mingling the terms.
Well, yes and no. The main point of compatibility that games should be working towards if they want to run well on macOS is to have ARM versions that work better with Apple’s M-series chips. SteamOS/The Steam Deck are still built for x86 processors which Apple has since stopped supporting.
It’s not impossible to bundle the games in an emulation layer, but it is a bit more involved than something like Proton/WINE, which are just compatibility layers and not emulators, and it comes at the cost of performance.
That’s the thing though. I bet you Valve is already prototyping an ARM based Steam Deck. It’s the logical next step to improve performance and thermals/battery at the same time.
Linux is awesome, it’s neat watching its developer friendliness result in snowballing market share.
Why not ditch MacOS? Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
Apple has been progressively neutering root on a path to make a laptop as much of a walled garden as iOS. Not to mention the entirely soldered RAM and SSD and then charges ridiculous premiums to get more
Why not ditch MacOS? Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
Eh, I disagree. Yes, macOS isn’t great, but calling it “just as bad” is a bit disingenuous. If I had to pick between Windows and macOS, and installing Linux wasn’t an option for whatever reason, I’d take macOS in a heartbeat because it doesn’t spy on users anywhere as much as Windows, most Linux stuff works seamlessly (macports or brew, take your pick), the built-in software is actually pretty decent.
That said, I very much dislike macOS as well (I use it for work), and there’s no substitute for me for Linux.
I’m working on a program that uses ctest and compiles a folder of test executables, and it takes seconds to test the first time vs hundredths of a second after.
Yeah, a second isn’t a lot of time, but it means I can’t accurately benchmark performance easily.
For me it strikes the right balance of usability and security.
I’ve been a Mac user for almost 20 years now. I’ve had periods using Linux on desktop, but not for some time now. I’m very much a macOS power user.
The things I use my computer for: desktop publishing via Affinity, photo editing, programming, some app dev, playing mostly older games, and I do a lot of data analysis. There are a few macOS apps I could not live without: Automator, Preview, and I use Apple Numbers a surprising amount (I like that it’s table based and not sheet based).
I also find the right usability and hardware quality makes a huge difference for me. What stopped me before was Linux high DPI support and trackpad quality, but that was years ago.
An example of why I like Mac: I have a script at work that spits out Google cloud buckets in gs: format and I can’t change the script. I set up a simple Automator workflow so now I can right click the url and format it as a link to the bucket viewer in my browser instantly.
I have a ton of these little workflow improvements that I’m sure you could do with Linux but already work well for me.
Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
They’re absolutely not.
Not to mention the entirely soldered RAM and SSD
Hate to tell you this but this is the direction of the entire industry. Look at the new Ryzen “AI Max” chips. Integrating CPU/GPU/RAM on the same chip just leads to crazy increases in performance and efficiency. As usual Apple paves the path to erosion of consumer choice.
Apple has been progressively neutering root on a path to make a laptop as much of a walled garden as iOS.
I agree it’s a very bad thing in general but it can also be disabled with some simple terminal commands. MS goes out of their way to constantly break any solutions consumers might find to make their systems suck less.
Integrating CPU/GPU/RAM on the same chip just leads to crazy increases in performance and efficiency. As usual Apple paves the path to erosion of consumer choice.
CUDIMM is the socket-able answer to this and it’s rolling out. What’s the excuse for soldering SSDs?
but it can also be disabled with some simple terminal commands.
For now, Apple’s not stupid, they know if they move too fast they’ll piss off too many people so they’re doing it slowly step by step.
As a Mac user I too want SteamOS to succeed, because it will indirectly result in more games that are compatible with macOS via game porting tools and wine.
Honestly windows is just annoying to deal with. I don’t like the ads, and I don’t like my start menu bar being reorganized. I run it in a VM and managing my install keys is a huge pain with their login system.
Linux is awesome, it’s neat watching its developer friendliness result in snowballing market share.
How is moltenVK going by the way, assuming you follow that? I originally thought macOS gaming was dead when they ditched OpenGL and declined to support Vulkan, but maybe with layers of shims peoples still make it work.
No idea, I don’t really follow that
If a SteamOS desktop system gets established, it would be time to add productive software to the ecosystem. Like a web browser, email, libreoffice, maybe some other tools. There are good free versions of all kinds of productivity software, and having them nicely packaged for a system like that would add a lot of value to the SteamOS driven family PC.
FYI, if you switch to Desktop mode on SteamOS, all those applications you listed are available via the included app store that taps into Flathub. SteamOS also ships with Firefox out of the box. I have them all installed on my SteamDeck already.
Wonderful!
A real corporate productivity suite for Linux via SteamOS would be a wonderful thing.
This is why both Google and Microsoft dumped untold billions of dollars into developing Azure (Microsoft) and Workspace (Google). Those OS agnostic corporate productivity suites are meant to keep those companies relevant.
Just a small correction; Microsoft 365, not Azure.
Azure is their cloud computing platform, similar to AWS
M365 runs on Azure which is why is why I phrased it the way I did. Although in retrospect I should have said Azure / GCP or M365 / Workspace instead of mingling the terms.
Well, yes and no. The main point of compatibility that games should be working towards if they want to run well on macOS is to have ARM versions that work better with Apple’s M-series chips. SteamOS/The Steam Deck are still built for x86 processors which Apple has since stopped supporting.
It’s not impossible to bundle the games in an emulation layer, but it is a bit more involved than something like Proton/WINE, which are just compatibility layers and not emulators, and it comes at the cost of performance.
Rosetta 2 seems pretty good still. It’s not free translation, but it’s viable.
I don’t expect macOS to be the best platform for games, I just want them broadly playable.
Yeah a lot of the proton work is going into
https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
Which there’s a cool user friendly experience with
https://getwhisky.app/
A lot of that work is going directly into
https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
So there is certainly overlap, though as you said, architecture emulation is a different beast
That’s the thing though. I bet you Valve is already prototyping an ARM based Steam Deck. It’s the logical next step to improve performance and thermals/battery at the same time.
Not SteamDeck, but there is evidence that Valve is working on x86-ARM emulation for a stand-alone VR Headset.
It’s often easier to activate it with other means even when you have a real key.
Why not ditch MacOS? Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
Apple has been progressively neutering root on a path to make a laptop as much of a walled garden as iOS. Not to mention the entirely soldered RAM and SSD and then charges ridiculous premiums to get more
Eh, I disagree. Yes, macOS isn’t great, but calling it “just as bad” is a bit disingenuous. If I had to pick between Windows and macOS, and installing Linux wasn’t an option for whatever reason, I’d take macOS in a heartbeat because it doesn’t spy on users anywhere as much as Windows, most Linux stuff works seamlessly (macports or brew, take your pick), the built-in software is actually pretty decent.
That said, I very much dislike macOS as well (I use it for work), and there’s no substitute for me for Linux.
Doesn’t MacOS phone home every time you run a new or changed executable? https://eclecticlight.co/2020/10/27/xprotect-what-do-we-know-about-it/
Edit: might be that it phones home for each executable if last it run was more than 12 hours ago, given this: https://www.howtogeek.com/701176/does-apple-track-every-mac-app-you-run-ocsp-explained/
This does annoy me.
I’m working on a program that uses ctest and compiles a folder of test executables, and it takes seconds to test the first time vs hundredths of a second after.
Yeah, a second isn’t a lot of time, but it means I can’t accurately benchmark performance easily.
Doesn’t Windows as well?
Regardless, Windows recording literally everything I do is worse than logging the apps I open.
No?
For me it strikes the right balance of usability and security.
I’ve been a Mac user for almost 20 years now. I’ve had periods using Linux on desktop, but not for some time now. I’m very much a macOS power user.
The things I use my computer for: desktop publishing via Affinity, photo editing, programming, some app dev, playing mostly older games, and I do a lot of data analysis. There are a few macOS apps I could not live without: Automator, Preview, and I use Apple Numbers a surprising amount (I like that it’s table based and not sheet based).
I also find the right usability and hardware quality makes a huge difference for me. What stopped me before was Linux high DPI support and trackpad quality, but that was years ago.
An example of why I like Mac: I have a script at work that spits out Google cloud buckets in gs: format and I can’t change the script. I set up a simple Automator workflow so now I can right click the url and format it as a link to the bucket viewer in my browser instantly.
I have a ton of these little workflow improvements that I’m sure you could do with Linux but already work well for me.
They’re absolutely not.
Hate to tell you this but this is the direction of the entire industry. Look at the new Ryzen “AI Max” chips. Integrating CPU/GPU/RAM on the same chip just leads to crazy increases in performance and efficiency. As usual Apple paves the path to erosion of consumer choice.
I agree it’s a very bad thing in general but it can also be disabled with some simple terminal commands. MS goes out of their way to constantly break any solutions consumers might find to make their systems suck less.
CUDIMM is the socket-able answer to this and it’s rolling out. What’s the excuse for soldering SSDs?
For now, Apple’s not stupid, they know if they move too fast they’ll piss off too many people so they’re doing it slowly step by step.
Rolling out where? As far as I know it’s only ever been installed and sold in a single device. Can’t tell ya why but it is.
I don’t have an answer for that one.
If that ever changes I’ll change my argument. I don’t think Apple really cares about the small fraction of users that will bother to mess with it.
We’re only about 4 months in ATM, it’s quite early
Nonetheless, it’s technically sound so even if it does flop, it will have been for primarily greed reasons rather than because soldering was superior
Ah, I was thinking of CAMM, which came out >2 years ago.