I drew a comparison between the music industry and rail fares because it seems to me that private ownership imposes its own agenda on the relationship (creators and listeners, or the people and their infrastructure) in much the same way - and that music piracy and fare evasion are symptoms of this, and have both been punished in such draconian ways on behalf of moneyed interests, rather than because of any harm they cause.
Well, as someone just about old enough to remember pre privatised rail. I will agree the Draconian nature of fare fines was less prevalent. Fines still existed. But were not used when it was obviously an error. IE wrong ticket rather than no ticket.
But more importantly, staffing was much higher. Every train had ticket inspectors. And those inspectors used their own judgement more. (Unfortunately, that judgement could lead to racism or other prejudice choices).
But honestly, while I think private rail failed in every form. I do not think the moving away from staff numbers would have been different under a public rail system. Public systems are still under pressure to reduce spending. Either to increase revenue to the government or reduce cost.
So honestly, I don’t see the fines or motivation to skip fares, being any different under a nationalised rail system in the modern era. Folks still skipped fares under nationalised rail. It’s just genuine errors were rarer, due to lack of automation.
That’s fair, publicly owned rail is a bit before my time and I wasn’t able to get my hands on any readily accessible data about fare evasion back then. I don’t feel too crazy assuming that more equitable fares would mean less fare evasion however.
I know the budget is a big concern these days and all, but I think that’s more to do with the broader discussion about rampant private equity in general, and ultimately the disappointing lack of political will to tax the top brackets appropriately.
But it def happened. People hiding from inspectors was not uncommon.
Just like theft of all kinds. Poverty is the largest cause.
Agreed. IE privrate equity. But public services still have to survive in a society where voters and economic interests want less spending. The same voters that objwct to public spending still exist when the true left is in charge. So high taxes for corperations and high public spending will always be am issue.
Force really is the only way to sipence opposing views. They still have a voice and people still listen even when the majority disagrees.
That majority is never close to absolute in a democratic society.
I’m surprised we’ve connected this dot in a chat about rail, but I really do think a lot of these issues stem from the voting system of FPTP. The basic game theory of our elections can’t align politicians with the interests of voters well.
I drew a comparison between the music industry and rail fares because it seems to me that private ownership imposes its own agenda on the relationship (creators and listeners, or the people and their infrastructure) in much the same way - and that music piracy and fare evasion are symptoms of this, and have both been punished in such draconian ways on behalf of moneyed interests, rather than because of any harm they cause.
OK.
Well, as someone just about old enough to remember pre privatised rail. I will agree the Draconian nature of fare fines was less prevalent. Fines still existed. But were not used when it was obviously an error. IE wrong ticket rather than no ticket.
But more importantly, staffing was much higher. Every train had ticket inspectors. And those inspectors used their own judgement more. (Unfortunately, that judgement could lead to racism or other prejudice choices).
But honestly, while I think private rail failed in every form. I do not think the moving away from staff numbers would have been different under a public rail system. Public systems are still under pressure to reduce spending. Either to increase revenue to the government or reduce cost.
So honestly, I don’t see the fines or motivation to skip fares, being any different under a nationalised rail system in the modern era. Folks still skipped fares under nationalised rail. It’s just genuine errors were rarer, due to lack of automation.
That’s fair, publicly owned rail is a bit before my time and I wasn’t able to get my hands on any readily accessible data about fare evasion back then. I don’t feel too crazy assuming that more equitable fares would mean less fare evasion however.
I know the budget is a big concern these days and all, but I think that’s more to do with the broader discussion about rampant private equity in general, and ultimately the disappointing lack of political will to tax the top brackets appropriately.
Fair evasion was harder. Due to more staff.
But it def happened. People hiding from inspectors was not uncommon.
Just like theft of all kinds. Poverty is the largest cause.
Agreed. IE privrate equity. But public services still have to survive in a society where voters and economic interests want less spending. The same voters that objwct to public spending still exist when the true left is in charge. So high taxes for corperations and high public spending will always be am issue.
Force really is the only way to sipence opposing views. They still have a voice and people still listen even when the majority disagrees.
That majority is never close to absolute in a democratic society.
I’m surprised we’ve connected this dot in a chat about rail, but I really do think a lot of these issues stem from the voting system of FPTP. The basic game theory of our elections can’t align politicians with the interests of voters well.