Third parties aren’t an answer and will only strengthen republicans. The only possible course is to steer the democrats out of the ditch. Unfortunately they have built a masonry bunker down in there and this will take some doing. We need about 20-30 more young people to do what AOC did and we’ll be getting somewhere.
Now is literally the time to fight for a new party. We’re 4 years away from a general election, the next elections are local which means it’s way more realistic and up to all of us to actually go and run with/vote for this “new” party. We have 4 years to work on the message getting a wider spread and even if it doesn’t, we’ll have the Congress if all goes well.
I understand the way you’re feeling. I have been there too. What you should fight for is a new Democratic Party, not a third party that will simply siphon votes from them, helping Republicans. Inagine doing all the work you describe only to realize you’ve been working against yourself the whole time. That’s what would happen.
A new party feels exciting because it’s new and you will have more control over it. But it’s like rushing out to create a “new” road system because of traffic and potholes. I know it’s not exciting but incremental change for the better is a far better use of your energy than thinking you can go out and create sweeping change by starting a third party. If you think the Democrats suck, go BE A BETTER DEMOCRAT. Like Bernie Sanders did. You don’t see him starting a third party.
I believe Sanders is actually independent and just votes with Democrats because they’re the current only option.
We cannot afford to chain ourselves to a corporate focused party that will never have our best interest in mind. We have 4 years to start working on this, we can’t keep doing this “it’s too late” thing over and over and over and over. The Democratic party is still refusing to accept what they did wrong. They’re pulling this whole “it was a messaging problem” thing as if they just need to lie to us harder and somehow we’ll get them back in office.
I’m tired of 40 years of the same thing. They aren’t changing.
I believe Sanders is actually independent and just votes with Democrats because they’re the current only option.
Bingo. Do that.
All your complaints are valid. I hear you and I share the pain. I’ve been putting up with it even longer.
A third party is still not the answer. It has never been, and will never be until the entire system of government and elections is completely different. Under existing conditions it is suicide, and a gift to Republicans.
I know this is hard to accept. I’m sorry. But I’d rather give it to you straight than blow smoke up your ass about organizing a whole new party to win in 4 years.
There are other parties but people are seemingly too scared to vote for them and would prefer things continue down this path to ruin we’ve been on for the last 40-50 years.
You must be European. I admire your voting system.
But unfortunately, USA runs under FPTP. We do not have European Luxury.
Party A: We will make teeny tiny bit of progress
Party B: We will try to destroy every progress ever made
Party C: We will make a lot of progress
Election Results:
Party A gets 45% of the vote
Party B gets 48% of the vote
Party C gets 6% of the vote
remaining votes are incorrectly marked and therefore invalidated
Under first past the post rules, Party B wins, even when the majority wanted some progress, no matter how small, now the party of regression and destruction are in power.
Good job.
TDLR: Fuck FPTP voting system, we really need ranked choice voting system.
The problem becomes even more stark if you assume parties A and C win 25% and 26%. Heck, let’s make B even more unpopular with a 34-35-31 split. There is an incredible amount of movement required to make a new party dominant and competitive in our fucked up system.
Counterpoint to this is that you sacrifice your principles and vote Party A and they still wind up losing again and again leaving Party B to run the entire government. Your vote was a throwaway vote anyway, so what would have been the harm in voting Party C?
Perhaps with enough momentum, Party C can reinvigorate the 50% of eligible voters who don’t even bother to show up due to years of disappointment and apathy with both Party A and Party B. How many times are you willing to vote Party A if they keep backing terrible candidates who can’t win, and even when they do by razor thin margins, do little to stem the tide of destruction? What are you gaining out of this system?
I’d argue that your mentality only encourages poor performance out of our elected officials and these two parties since they can count on you, and those on the other side, to vote for them regardless of what they do or don’t do, how well or bad they perform, and whatever promises they may or may not keep. What is even the point of voting for candidates when all you’re doing is voting for a specific party? They might as well make the election automatic based on whatever party everyone registers as. What’s the difference?
To me, this mentality is no different than those apathetic voters who sit out every election because all you’re doing is keeping this fucked up system going and expecting things to get better without doing anything different to change the outcome.
I mean, unless you can gut unrealistically broad consensus on which third party to vote for you just get Ross Perot again.
The US system is designed in a way that basically makes 2 parties a hard upper limit. If you want(ed) finer control than voting for the least worst candidate, you have to consider showing up to primaries and boring activist meetings.
It’s hard to talk to liberals and get them to understand that the system the states has set up means that just voting for the democrats doesn’t change anything. The elections are not fair.
So when you look and see that most Americans didn’t vote at all, like lowest turnout ever, you look at that and you think “well they just don’t like to vote!” The mental gymnastics you guys do is crazy.
Yeah let me just vote for… oh wait there’s only 2 god damn parties.
Third parties aren’t an answer and will only strengthen republicans. The only possible course is to steer the democrats out of the ditch. Unfortunately they have built a masonry bunker down in there and this will take some doing. We need about 20-30 more young people to do what AOC did and we’ll be getting somewhere.
Now is literally the time to fight for a new party. We’re 4 years away from a general election, the next elections are local which means it’s way more realistic and up to all of us to actually go and run with/vote for this “new” party. We have 4 years to work on the message getting a wider spread and even if it doesn’t, we’ll have the Congress if all goes well.
The Democratic party can die in a fire.
I understand the way you’re feeling. I have been there too. What you should fight for is a new Democratic Party, not a third party that will simply siphon votes from them, helping Republicans. Inagine doing all the work you describe only to realize you’ve been working against yourself the whole time. That’s what would happen.
A new party feels exciting because it’s new and you will have more control over it. But it’s like rushing out to create a “new” road system because of traffic and potholes. I know it’s not exciting but incremental change for the better is a far better use of your energy than thinking you can go out and create sweeping change by starting a third party. If you think the Democrats suck, go BE A BETTER DEMOCRAT. Like Bernie Sanders did. You don’t see him starting a third party.
It’s ultimately just math.
I believe Sanders is actually independent and just votes with Democrats because they’re the current only option.
We cannot afford to chain ourselves to a corporate focused party that will never have our best interest in mind. We have 4 years to start working on this, we can’t keep doing this “it’s too late” thing over and over and over and over. The Democratic party is still refusing to accept what they did wrong. They’re pulling this whole “it was a messaging problem” thing as if they just need to lie to us harder and somehow we’ll get them back in office.
I’m tired of 40 years of the same thing. They aren’t changing.
Bingo. Do that.
All your complaints are valid. I hear you and I share the pain. I’ve been putting up with it even longer.
A third party is still not the answer. It has never been, and will never be until the entire system of government and elections is completely different. Under existing conditions it is suicide, and a gift to Republicans.
I know this is hard to accept. I’m sorry. But I’d rather give it to you straight than blow smoke up your ass about organizing a whole new party to win in 4 years.
Bernie Sanders ran as a Democratic socialist.
There are other parties but people are seemingly too scared to vote for them and would prefer things continue down this path to ruin we’ve been on for the last 40-50 years.
You must be European. I admire your voting system.
But unfortunately, USA runs under FPTP. We do not have European Luxury.
Party A: We will make teeny tiny bit of progress
Party B: We will try to destroy every progress ever made
Party C: We will make a lot of progress
Election Results:
Party A gets 45% of the vote
Party B gets 48% of the vote
Party C gets 6% of the vote
remaining votes are incorrectly marked and therefore invalidated
Under first past the post rules, Party B wins, even when the majority wanted some progress, no matter how small, now the party of regression and destruction are in power.
Good job.
TDLR: Fuck FPTP voting system, we really need ranked choice voting system.
The problem becomes even more stark if you assume parties A and C win 25% and 26%. Heck, let’s make B even more unpopular with a 34-35-31 split. There is an incredible amount of movement required to make a new party dominant and competitive in our fucked up system.
“Europe” isn’t a singular country with one voting system.
You’re saying this isn’t a real picture with accurate information???
True. But most European countries have parliamentary democracies with more or less proportional representation. Then the details vary wildly.
(Although the UK has FPTP single candidate constituencies so they’re nearly as bad)
Not European I live in the US.
Counterpoint to this is that you sacrifice your principles and vote Party A and they still wind up losing again and again leaving Party B to run the entire government. Your vote was a throwaway vote anyway, so what would have been the harm in voting Party C?
Perhaps with enough momentum, Party C can reinvigorate the 50% of eligible voters who don’t even bother to show up due to years of disappointment and apathy with both Party A and Party B. How many times are you willing to vote Party A if they keep backing terrible candidates who can’t win, and even when they do by razor thin margins, do little to stem the tide of destruction? What are you gaining out of this system?
I’d argue that your mentality only encourages poor performance out of our elected officials and these two parties since they can count on you, and those on the other side, to vote for them regardless of what they do or don’t do, how well or bad they perform, and whatever promises they may or may not keep. What is even the point of voting for candidates when all you’re doing is voting for a specific party? They might as well make the election automatic based on whatever party everyone registers as. What’s the difference?
To me, this mentality is no different than those apathetic voters who sit out every election because all you’re doing is keeping this fucked up system going and expecting things to get better without doing anything different to change the outcome.
FYI, primary elections exist, but most people don’t bother voting in primaries.
People are scared to vote for them because of our FPTP voting system.
Yeah, well, we see how well that’s working out.
I mean, unless you can gut unrealistically broad consensus on which third party to vote for you just get Ross Perot again.
The US system is designed in a way that basically makes 2 parties a hard upper limit. If you want(ed) finer control than voting for the least worst candidate, you have to consider showing up to primaries and boring activist meetings.
Did you not just hear me? Free and fair election. What does that mean to you?
Words, do they have meanings???
This is what we call griefing, friends. Notice how the OP didn’t bother to respond. It’s because the OP is a smurf.
It’s hard to talk to liberals and get them to understand that the system the states has set up means that just voting for the democrats doesn’t change anything. The elections are not fair.
deleted by creator
So when you look and see that most Americans didn’t vote at all, like lowest turnout ever, you look at that and you think “well they just don’t like to vote!” The mental gymnastics you guys do is crazy.
deleted by creator
Lol it already fell apart doing it your way. But believe what you want.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Ok I’ll give you that, there are zero candidates even trying that I like. Last one I liked in American politics was Sanders.
Not hard, impossible. Say it with any oomph and you’ll get a ban.