The Council on American Islamic Relations said the allegation was that the teacher had remarked, “I do not negotiate with terrorists,” when the Palestinian American student asked for a seat change.
Recent U.S. incidents involving children include the attempted drowning of a 3-year-old Palestinian American girl in Texas and the fatal stabbing of a 6-year-old Palestinian American boy in Illinois.
Other incidents include the stabbing of a Palestinian American man in Texas, the beating of a Muslim man in New York, a violent mob attack on pro-Palestinian protesters in California and the shooting of three Palestinian American students in Vermont.
Yeah, I can’t envision a context that would make this an appropriate thing to say.
It’s obviously not appropriate to say to a student, but it also happens to be a colloquial expression used quite often as a generic joke response to exactly those types of requests.
That phrase alone means almost nothing since it’s used much more widely than it appears on the surface. The context is inappropriate, but that doesn’t mean the phrase was at all intended that way.
If the child were white would we be having this same conversation as it is? If the teacher was saying it to a friend outside work instead, would it be different?
That’s the point, though: even if it wasn’t MOTIVATED by prejudice towards Palestinians (and let’s be honest, it probably was), not being careful about perpetuating the stereotype is in itself careless victimization at best.
I’m worried you haven’t brainstormed enough hypotheticals where this isn’t offensive. What if the teacher had their Bluetooth in and they were talking to a real terrorist? Or what if the kid’s name is Terrorists? You feel pretty foolish now, don’t you?
Excellent points. I will now wear the hat of shame. 😄
Would you say the same thing if this was a black kid and the teacher refused to let them move because they were being too uppity?
Divorcing atrocities from context is a great way to deny they happen.
Depends, are we using the same phrase that’s been separated from its origin in colloquial use? Because that’s the distinction I’m making. That the phrase usage itself being tied to the racial aspect here is flimsy specifically because the phrase is widely used outside of that racial context.
So if we remove the specific thing that links the phrase here to be so bad, the racial link, would the situation be viewed differently? I don’t think it would be nearly the same. The usage in the context of teacher/student is obviously bad, it’s not an appropriate location for the phrase in any context, but that has nothing to do with the race of the student. Without more context to show it should be related, like previous racist comments from the teacher, simply assuming it is related just taints objective analysis of the situation.
Calling a Palestinian child a terrorist isn’t fucking colloquial. Why would you even suggest such a thing? What a bigoted fucking thing to say. There’s nothing flimsy here at all.
Pretending like it isn’t bigoted by divorcing it from context is fucking stupid. Without context, calling a child a monkey is fine. With context, calling a black child a monkey is bigoted as fuck. And I’m sure you’re not stupid, so you know that and are just trying to excuse what this awful racist teacher did.
Or do you call black children monkeys because calling a white child a monkey isn’t racist?
I think calling a black child a monkey without that being part of an established pattern or without reason would be racist, sure.
But if a whole kindergarten class was acting crazy, and a teacher said they were acting like moneys, and that class happened to have a black child in it, I wouldn’t think they were racist for calling that black child a monkey.
And if a news story ran that had the headline, “racist teacher calls black child a monkey,” and those were the facts presented, I’d call it rage bait.
So the question of whether this child was singled out and called a terrorist with racial intent, or we just have a teacher using a normal phrase with no racial intent seems a relevant point.
Where do you people come from where “I don’t negotiate with terrorists” is a normal phrase that teachers say to children?
I don’t even know any adults who have said something like that to each other in years.
The kid wouldn’t even have gotten the reference because they were born many years after Bush was in office.
I hear it often enough, I’m from MA. I don’t know what to tell you, but it’s a common expression.
Here’s the scenario, often as an adult you have to tell children what to do, (eat your dinner, get dressed, we have to leave now, etc). Sometimes they start making ultimatums or threats over issues that really aren’t up for debate, “No! I won’t do X unless Y!” - that kind of thing. It’s at that point one might use that expression, it’s really not uncommon.
Hey, maybe the phrase isn’t in your normal vocabulary, but you’re going to have to accept that it is in a lot of other people’s normal vocabulary. You don’t have to like it, but it’s a fact, and it’s generally best to just accept facts, cause you don’t really have other options.
So given that this is a normal thing to say, it was still a pretty massive fuck up. Being put on leave is probably an appropriate response. Was it racist? I’m like 85% sure no.
I mean, I come from a place that that’s a normal thing people say. And I’d think I’m as likely to say it to a child as “I’ll be back,” or “clever girl,” or “what we have here is a failure to communicate,” or any number of other referential phrases that a child is unlikely to understand the reference to.
But maybe you’re right it’s an age/generational thing. It’s definitely a phrase still in the zeitgeist of people my age, but maybe less so in a younger demographic? Maybe that’s why there’s a skew in the comments, where some of us see it as a phrase as common and normal as “we’re gonna need a bigger boat,” and some think it’s super out of left field and weird.
But the child not getting the reference is immaterial. Part of learning language is learning what phrases are in the zeitgeist. It’s not weird for me to use any of the above phrases with a child, even if they haven’t seen any of the things they’re from.
I don’t know what age you are, but I am 47 and I have not heard that phrase in years.
And you’re right, it’s immaterial whether or not the child gets it. The material part is a teacher insulting a child. Racist, not racist, it is absolutely inappropriate either way.
You are internally ignoring my point, notably that the racial aspect you want to focus on may not be related AT ALL to the usage of the phrase.
You are assuming that race is related, and it might be, but the phrase is used all the time without actual terrorism being involved, so blindly assuming it is means you instantly discount alternative scenarios without considering them. Just because there appears to be a link on the sirface, that doesn’t mean there actually is.
No point in trying to discuss it further since you clearly aren’t actually trying to have a real conversation about it.
I am not ignoring your point, I am just disagreeing with it. But your idea that people who disagree with you don’t want to discuss things with you is noted.
It’s not because of disagreement, but your apparent inability to even consider a reality where the racial aspect isn’t involved here. And since that’s the entire basis of what I’m discussing, would mean you aren’t intending to have a real discussion.
Not surprising given your other posts elsewhere in the fediverse. You never seem to try to consider alternative perspectives when people post them, just insisting they’re wrong for various reasons often including various logical fallacies. So I’m not exactly surprised you’re doing the same here.
I can consider that reality. I just don’t think that reality is even remotely likely in this case.
Your lying about me (couching it in “seem to”) and your unprovoked incivility are also both noted.
I do not give bigotry the benefit of the doubt and try to be nice to the person being bigoted. Especially when it’s a teacher being bigoted to a student, something that happens constantly. Something that I saw myself regularly in school.
Edit: Incidentally, this is a whole lot like people excusing Elon’s Nazi salute as a Roman salute or him being “autistic” and getting too excited.