I’ve come to two realizations recently:

One

The sudden tankie willingness to believe that Trump cares about a cease-fire in Gaza, and got tough with the Israelis and then they capitulated which Biden could have done at any time, sheds some interesting light on how the tankies think. They accuse anyone who disagrees with them of shifting their realities around, such that anything Biden does is good, anything the State Department says is always true, even if it contradicts itself or basic common sense or reality. I always thought that this was just a lazy reality-free arguing tactic, but in retrospect, I should have realized that it’s a tell about their own thought process. Just like it’s a warning sign if someone constantly suspects their partner of cheating, or is constantly on an absurdly hypervigilant lookout for scams and people trying to cheat them out of money, this is a key revelation about the way Hexbear itself looks at reality.

Trump is a capable diplomat, if believing that lets them trash Biden. Trump cares about Palestinians, if believing that lets them trash Biden. The cart is firmly in its place in front, and everything else including the horse can follow along depending on what the cart dictates.

Two

Hexbear’s censorship, and wild hostility to anyone who comes to “their” place and tries not to toe the party line, really does do a pretty effective job of distorting the view of reality and consensus that their users are able to experience.

Take a look at these and compare:

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/36382877

https://hexbear.net/post/4354590

  • @Eldritch
    link
    English
    13
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    They are not in any meaningful sense left. What happens is it when you’re a hammer everything looks like a nail. The reason tankies look so similar to magats. Is because they are unified in a Devotion to strong men and a authoritarianism over left or right. They believe that might makes right and disagreement is punishable by Death. No more no less. They are authoritarians and will use whatever economic policy they think serves the case in point china.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      -31 day ago

      I disagree. The defining characteristic of the left is the belief in owning the means of production. Authoritarian right still believes in privately owned corporations owning the means of production, while the authoritarian left believes in state ownership of the means of production. (Which, IMO, is slightly worse than corporate ownership, as you have no higher authority to whom you can appeal.) The anti-authoritarian left believes that the people themselves should directly control the means of production, without an intermediary like the state.

      • @Eldritch
        link
        English
        31 day ago

        The problem is they don’t under leninism. Not in any actual sense. The vanguard party does. Everyone else are disposable proletariat. To be imprisoned or slaughtered should the vanguard party feel threatened.

        Modern Russian oligarchs were given their wealth and position by the vanguard. Not by the proletariat. China is a similar story. Leninism/maoism has never, and will never work. It’s just a system that creates the same wealthy ruling class via slightly different means. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          11 day ago

          The problem is they don’t under leninism.

          Not all of leftists are Leninists though. Certainly some are, maybe most. But Leninism is only one form of leftist belief. I’m personally much closer to an anarchist than a Leninist. (…And I’m very, very aware that anarchists end up getting executed as soon as leftist coalitions take power.) I also recognize that a truly non-hierarchical society is functionally unworkable at anything larger than a tribal level, and that there’s a strong tendency for non-hierarchical socialist societies to devolve into authoritarianism at the slightest provocation.

          • @Eldritch
            link
            English
            31 day ago

            I don’t think that I ever implied that they were. Because that would be really silly me being a left anarchist/libertarian. I have no problem with leftists or knowing what leftists are. I just have problem with authoritarians whether they pretend to be left or right.

            And yes hierarchies are not completely avoidable. But they should be as local and as granular as possible. And we can have a really vociferous and act of debate on that. But National level organizations have always been one of the biggest problems.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              English
              21 day ago

              But National level organizations have always been one of the biggest problems

              I agree with that 100%. No matter how good the local group is, it can quickly be poisoned by the national org. I understand wanting to organize nationally, because that’s how you start to wield real power, buuuuuuuttttttt…

              • @Eldritch
                link
                English
                224 hours ago

                Yes they may be a necessary evil to some extent but they should always be the ones answerable to others and not the one to be answered to. So many of our current problems with parties here in the United States stem from over concentration/centralization. Large unanswerable on accountable organizations that ignore the General Public. And especially when it comes to Democrats do not invest locally.