The Bible says everyone goes to heaven at the same time.
I don’t think that’s clear in the text, and that’s historically been a major point of theological contention. I think the debate in the US 1800s over “soul sleep” and the affiliated quasi-cults that sprung up after the Millerite movement (Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovahs Witnesses) had very strong opinions on whether you go to heaven immediately, stay “asleep” in the ground until God starts resurrecting people, wait in some kind of cosmic waiting room for the resurrections, or if you are just flat out dead until God wakes you up. (Of course, JW’s are so committed to bad exegesis that they’ll die rather than receive a blood infusion, because “don’t eat animal blood” in the ritual purity laws of course means “don’t receive human blood infusions.”)
Think about Mormon baptism for the dead. Those people aren’t in heaven or hell (because at least the lower kingdoms of heaven aren’t even set up yet - all of us non-Mormons are going to be hanging out on Earth 2.0 when we die). Mormons are experts at genealogy because they’re trying to make sure that every great-great-great-great-grandparent they have gets a chance at salvation.
hard pill to swallow but we get reincarnated over and over again there are no souls in the ground or “cosmic waiting room”. we are forced back until we “build heaven on earth”
How did you arrive at your belief system? I don’t really see any textual support for your beliefs in the Bible (which is fine, but it seemed like you were making claims based in a Christian framework from context). Are you on here to proselytize?
Yeah, they hadn’t figured out relativity yet back then. The soul departs the body at the speed of light, meaning everyone who does reaches heaven instantly. Since it’s so far away, from our perspective, it takes essentially forever thanks to time dilation.
heaven is not a place you go. it’s a state of you, your surroundings and the world. we create it not get taken to it. that’s the hard part people don’t get. NO ONE IS COMING TO SAVE US, WE WILL NOT BE MAGICALLY TELEPORTED ANYWHERE
Yeah that’s what I was getting at. But so many people are conditioned to think the opposite. Say those last couple sentences to a random Christian in my town and they will think it’s the darkest and possibly most hateful shit they’ve heard in a long time.
Of course I won’t be teleported, I’ll just slowly ascend into the sky, where the oxygen thins out, and I eventually freeze solid in the vacuum of space.
I think that’s the Dispensationalist view, but I’m not sure how much of that is explicitly supported by Biblical text. Someone could correct me if I’m wrong.
A plain reading suggests that everyone is dead and stays that way until the eschaton when they’re resurrected. So the only people in heaven would be the Jewish souls that Jesus directly put there that had been dwelling in the gloomy underground afterlife.
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Revelation 21:21, KJV
Here’s the full chapter for context. There may be some room for arguing whether the “new Jerusalem” is Heaven. But since it’s pretty clear that God lives there, I think it fulfills the same general purpose.
Fun fact:
The Bible says everyone goes to heaven at the same time. So I guess the souls just chill out until the rapture happens?
I don’t think that’s clear in the text, and that’s historically been a major point of theological contention. I think the debate in the US 1800s over “soul sleep” and the affiliated quasi-cults that sprung up after the Millerite movement (Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovahs Witnesses) had very strong opinions on whether you go to heaven immediately, stay “asleep” in the ground until God starts resurrecting people, wait in some kind of cosmic waiting room for the resurrections, or if you are just flat out dead until God wakes you up. (Of course, JW’s are so committed to bad exegesis that they’ll die rather than receive a blood infusion, because “don’t eat animal blood” in the ritual purity laws of course means “don’t receive human blood infusions.”)
Think about Mormon baptism for the dead. Those people aren’t in heaven or hell (because at least the lower kingdoms of heaven aren’t even set up yet - all of us non-Mormons are going to be hanging out on Earth 2.0 when we die). Mormons are experts at genealogy because they’re trying to make sure that every great-great-great-great-grandparent they have gets a chance at salvation.
hard pill to swallow but we get reincarnated over and over again there are no souls in the ground or “cosmic waiting room”. we are forced back until we “build heaven on earth”
That might be your belief system, but it has little to do with the text of the Bible and historical/modern ideas of its interpretation.
idc about modern interpretations. believe what you want no skin off my back
How did you arrive at your belief system? I don’t really see any textual support for your beliefs in the Bible (which is fine, but it seemed like you were making claims based in a Christian framework from context). Are you on here to proselytize?
Yeah, they hadn’t figured out relativity yet back then. The soul departs the body at the speed of light, meaning everyone who does reaches heaven instantly. Since it’s so far away, from our perspective, it takes essentially forever thanks to time dilation.
You can trust me, I have a PhD in bullshit.
heaven is not a place you go. it’s a state of you, your surroundings and the world. we create it not get taken to it. that’s the hard part people don’t get. NO ONE IS COMING TO SAVE US, WE WILL NOT BE MAGICALLY TELEPORTED ANYWHERE
As much as this sounds negative, the optimistic nihilist in me sees it as a beautiful liberating realization.
it’s not negative. be in charge of your own destiny and stop giving hope to a false idea
Yeah that’s what I was getting at. But so many people are conditioned to think the opposite. Say those last couple sentences to a random Christian in my town and they will think it’s the darkest and possibly most hateful shit they’ve heard in a long time.
that’s because they arent Christians, just use the name
Of course I won’t be teleported, I’ll just slowly ascend into the sky, where the oxygen thins out, and I eventually freeze solid in the vacuum of space.
space right
Yes, that’s what purgatory is for, it’s basically a waiting room before heaven
Honk!
Edit: this was my 1,000th comment
I think that’s the Dispensationalist view, but I’m not sure how much of that is explicitly supported by Biblical text. Someone could correct me if I’m wrong.
A plain reading suggests that everyone is dead and stays that way until the eschaton when they’re resurrected. So the only people in heaven would be the Jewish souls that Jesus directly put there that had been dwelling in the gloomy underground afterlife.
The lines are going to be terrible.
Another fun fact, there are no Pearly Gates in the Bible.
John of Patmos would like a word with you:
Here’s the full chapter for context. There may be some room for arguing whether the “new Jerusalem” is Heaven. But since it’s pretty clear that God lives there, I think it fulfills the same general purpose.
Well shit lol.
I guess I was conflating the pearly gates with the idea of St. Peter, and a queue of people - that part isn’t in there.